Maveritchell wrote:

Gen.Kenobi wrote:That's a rule! Who doesn't agree to make your model public for the comunity AND BE CREDITED when used in Mods/Maps, just doesn't enter it.

You are missing what I am saying. It cannot be a rule if you want to have your contest here. Them's the breaks.

Why this cannot be a rule? If the modeler don't want to have his model realesed to the public, he just don't enter the contest. I can't see any probleman with it. Do you guys see? If yes, PLEASE explain why.

im not shure about the sketchupmodels..
i never got one ingame or even in a decend condition in xsi because the normals seem to become messed up due the converting..

Gen.Kenobi wrote:Why this cannot be a rule? If the modeler don't want to have his model realesed to the public, he just don't enter the contest. I can't see any probleman with it. Do you guys see? If yes, PLEASE explain why.

I didn't realize I (or any other staff) should need to explain our decisions, but since you said please:
You are limiting the people that are allowed to enter. Sometimes, if someone makes a really nice model, they don't want it released to the public, or maybe they just want first crack at it themselves. Your rule will exist only to feed the "gimme gimme gimme make stuff for me" attitude, and we can't support that. Saying "do your best and then give it to me" is pretty sketch, like I said in the first of three (now four!) posts saying that it was a bad idea.

LOL now staff is trying to limit it...great! exactaly what i wanted...

Weren't you who told about do not allowing Sketchup to the model contest, and now you're telling me that I'M limiting things here?

So i'll setup a pool, who doesn't want to share your models vote no and who want vote yes.

EDIT: pool set, please vote. The people will tell.

im not shure where this argument will lead to....

Gen.Kenobi wrote:So i'll steup a pool, who doesn't want to share your models vote no (what really means a sellfish guy) and who want vote yes.

No offence, but when in the past have you released any of your models??? does that mean your selfish ???

No any asked for them.

im not shure what i should check....
it really depends o the point of the contest, is it "models for swbf2" or "(starwars(?))models"?

Gen.Kenobi wrote:LOL now staff is trying to limit it...great! exactaly what i wanted...

Weren't you who told about do not allowing Sketchup to the model contest, and now you're telling me that I'M limiting things here?

So i'll setup a pool, who doesn't want to share your models vote no (what really means a sellfish guy) and who want vote yes.

EDIT: pool set, please vote. The people will tell.

Really? I won't lock the thread yet, but really?

Really?

Further discussion of this is not warranted or allowed - you can not require models to be released.

So why on Fallout Studious Foruns he could ask for the models??????

Because there you have nice admins and people.

Just to the record, you're the only staff here? How can you decide things alone or just with one other staff?

Gen.Kenobi wrote:So why on Fallout Studious Foruns he could ask for the models??????

Because there you have nice admins and people.

Just to the record, you're the only staff here? How can you decide things alone or just with one other staff?

Hmm yes it is because we are big 'ol jerks here, I am sorry to say. Not all websites are created equal, and I guess because I'm such a big 'ol jerk you can have a warning.

Believe it or not I support your idea of having a contest, which is why I haven't locked this topic despite the guff you're giving me. I still won't lock it but I will encourage you to be more discerning with your words in the future (and more respectful of staff).

I'm not disrespecting you guys (staff) here. I think is because you guys are "big 'ol jerks "that we're having problemans. Thanks for letting me know it.

I just can't see any problemans with it.

But okay..if you guys do not want to increase the public comunity models, ok, just make it without having to make it public. That would be a great loss to the comunity. But if the modeler doesn't care about it, he realese by his own.

@Ace: I remember hearing somewhere that it's a lot easier to make quality animations in MAX... Although I may be mistaken.
But really, I don't think it's fair to lump everyone together into one group of people for this. I agree with Mav, because it'd be pretty obvious which entrants would get the most votes. And if Gogie comes back to BFII modeling... Well, then there's three categories: "Newbie," "Expert," and "Gogie."

DarthD.U.C.K. wrote:im not shure about the sketchupmodels..
i never got one ingame or even in a decend condition in xsi because the normals seem to become messed up due the converting..

I have

Gen.Kenobi wrote:I'm not disrespecting you guys (staff) here.

I think is because you guys are "big 'ol jerks "that we're having problemans. Thanks for letting me know it.

Ummm....WTF?

And people can choose to release or not release whatever they want. There are so many things that haven't been rleased that could be used by others but the makers put the time and effort into making it and have no obligation to the 'community' to release anything.

Also, it's worth mentioning that you should probably limit your models to programs like Max and XSI - Sketchup has too many shortcuts and it's tough to get an accurate comparison (also determining plagiarism is harder there too).

I would beg to differ on this, as I don't see how these "shortcuts" make sketchup discredible. If you could make anything in XSI easier, would that make it a poor program too?
I'm not sure what you mean by accurate comparison either, could you elaborate?

and lastly, if the categorys were narrowed down to star wars stuff, determining plagerism wouldnt be that hard, as there are only about 200-300 star wars-related models in the warehouse, and only about 100 would be decent enough to "plagerise".

DarthRogueKnight wrote:

Also, it's worth mentioning that you should probably limit your models to programs like Max and XSI - Sketchup has too many shortcuts and it's tough to get an accurate comparison (also determining plagiarism is harder there too).

I would beg to differ on this, as I don't see how these "shortcuts" make sketchup discredible. If you could make anything in XSI easier, would that make it a poor program too?
I'm not sure what you mean by accurate comparison either, could you elaborate?

He wasn't saying Sketchup is a bad program, as it is not by any means. But what he means by shortcuts are things such as the circle tool and the move tool. It's extremely hard to extrude a circle in XSI, whereas it's a basic function in Sketchup, and the move tool can cut a hole easily. That's not so in XSI. There's also the follow me tool; I'm still an ameteur at making bends in XSI looks right, where sketchup can do that for you. And extruding a shape out of something that already has an extrusion, that is no work at all in Sketchup, where in XSI, it's pretty time-consuming to get the right shape. Thus, all of the aforementioned "shortcuts" can make it harder to decide which model is the best. Someone could spend a couple hours on a model in sketchup versus a model that took about a day in XSI, yet the sketchup model could look tons better and more polished than the XSI model with less than half the effort.

@Gen Kenobi: People that make the models have the rights to them (so long as they are original designs, but if not still retain creation credit), because you are not staff here, nor are you an employee of LucasArts or Pandemic you have No authority to make that kinda of rule where all entrants give up the right to freely hold or release the entered assets. Different forums run things differently, if you don't like how Mav (who is a site admin) and Teancum (Admin from SWBF1 days) and Guru (Site Owner that trusts Mav and Tean to do the right thing), and all the other moderators run things, then tough luck. They happen to run a very clean and respectable place here, compared to many other forums, the lack of flame wars and spam is astounding.

@Fluffy: Actually the full version of XSI/Autodesk Softimage has alot of highly flexible animation tools, final quality of the animation comes straight down to the skill of the animator in using the tool set he/she has. Personal skill is what matters most in animation as it does in any other digital art form.

On Sketch Up vs XSI:

XSI is a full featured application that deals with more mathematical aspects of modeling, once you learn the tool set you can create highly detail models in the same timeframe you can in Sketchup. Sketch up is a more beginner based program that lacks many features found in more advanced applications, like built in rendering and animation. It handles edge flow, vertex normals and face normals far differently then XSI/Maya/3DSMax, and has far fewer export options. It also has a very limited UV unwrap and texture tool set, and can't render bump, specular or normal maps, nor can it do occlusion render maps, raytracing and HDR imaging.

The workflow between the two apps is also highly different. In XSI/Maya/3DSMax you are literally pushing polys, verts and edges into the shape you want, or extruding edges and faces to create your shapes. That is aside from the various NURBS hulls you can use and Sub-D modeling, and other techniques like Curve Lofting.

What takes you a few hours in SketchUp and a Day in XSI is all down to your experience with each application. However I guarantee you that you can create a highly detailed and optimized mesh easier in XSI then you can in SketchUp, as you can see a full wireframe and where all edges connect and disconnect.

Gen.Kenobi wrote:So why on Fallout Studious Foruns he could ask for the models??????

Because there you have nice admins and people.

Just to the record, you're the only staff here? How can you decide things alone or just with one other staff?

He is not the only staff here, there are quite a few of us and we all read what goes on in the forums.
Mav and others are right though you cannot ask that the model msh be submitted and be allowed to be altered by anyone to their liking. You may as well have said they have to submit the XSI scene file or what ever format that the model was created in. Making a good model takes time and any modeler worth a spit is not going to spend hours on creating things just to go "ya sure bugger it up anyway you want" It is like holding a map contest under the stipulation that all the ZE files be submitted too so anyone can change your map to their liking, pretty sure not too many people would go for that either.

That is all I shall say on the matter other than yes the rules of the site are made by and administered by the staff and they are fair and just and are made for a reason.

Good luck to you if your contest continues but I shall not be entering but shall be watching the topic.

Just to let you guys know, i've already apologysed with Maverichell, and everything is fine.
The modeler can or not realesed his model. If he want, he do, if not, he keeps to him, as normal.


I just need to know, what themes do you guys sugests to the first competition, so we can start a new thread.


Peace Everyone,

-Gen.Kenobi