Hi, I'm (kinda) new here to the forums. I've been lurking for a while, and I just decided to post, since I really need help with a map I'm planning to make.

Alright, so I've been attempting maps for months now, but so far, I've had no luck in really finishing one. Though I do know what I'm doing, I always seem to encounter a lot of problems and I just... give up. I've been hoping to make something nice and original, and I've thought and thought about new locations for a new map. I considered many things, including Dantooine, Mustafar, Korriban, Klatooine an extended version of Tipoca City/Cloud City, and even tried to create my own planet or two. But still, every time I start a map, I just seem to... well, to put it simply, get bored with it. I've never really had much patience, and tend to rush things a lot. So therefore, my maps always turn out sloppy.

But recently, I've come up with an excellent idea for a map, and I just couldn't help but see the idea go to waste. So now, I'm hoping having some fellow modders help me out along the way will make things easier, and encourage me to actually finish the map, taking my time so as to include every little detail perfectly (well, maybe not that perfect, but you know what I mean...)

Basically, my idea is for a map taking place on the planet Kessel. The map would be called "Escape From Kessel", and would be a GCW only map.

Now, as you all probably know, Kessel is the infamous "planet" (technically, its actually an over-sized asteroid, but let's just call it a planet...) located in the heart of the Maw, a large expanse of dangerous asteroid belts and black holes. The planet is mined for its valuable spice, and many Rebel POWs of the Galactic Civil War were sent there to do forced labor. Basically an Imperial Concentration camp of a sort.

Well, the map itself would feature the desolate Kessel landscape, along with many hazards such as rocky canyons, dangerous machinery, and of course, your typical angry mob of Imps/Rebs. It would also include many new units (mainly on the Imps side). I already got the whole story written out (which I plan to include in the readme file once the map is done...) Here it is:


Following the Battle of Hoth, many of the captured Rebel POWs were sent to the Kessel spice mines. Forced to mine the precious spices, hundreds of the Rebels died from the horrible conditions. So as not to endure the labor, many soldiers ended up taking their own lives. Only about four-hundred-fifty or so of the original one thousand POWs remained.

Rebellion leaders devised a plan of attack against the Imperials. They gathered up a squadron of four Mon Calamari cruisers, planning to strike the Kessel prison camp head-on. Once the force was strong enough, they set out to the Maw, ready for combat.

The Rebels' attacked seemed doomed from the start, as one of the Mon Calamari cruisers was lost to a black hole before reaching Kessel. The other three, though a bit shaken from a close encounter with a large asteroid feild, were able to make it to the desolate planet. Getting the jump on the Imperials, they attacked the prowling Star Destroyer looming around the planet. The Star Destroyer had no time to react, and was shot down, crashing into the planet's moon.

Seeing their chance, the Rebels on the surface revolted against the distracted Imperials, attacking the prison guards, and catching the Empire by surprise. Before any of the Imperials could react, the Rebels quickly stormed the facility, capturing the armory and stealing a horde of Imperial weapons. The Empire was quickly able to gather up a small, weakened force of about three hundred soldiers and retaliated. Now, in the heat of battle, it's up to you to turn the tide against the enemy.

Which side will you choose?



And that's pretty much the story. The captured Rebs have made a daring act of escape, causing the Imps to take drastic measures. Since the Rebs have stolen the Imp weapons rather than their own, they will instead use Imperial weapons rather than their own, Rebel variants. (i.e. the Rebel soldier, instead of having his blaster rifle, will instead have an Imperial Stormtrooper one, the Rebel Marksman will have a Scout Trooper-style sniper rifle, etc.)

The units would include:

Rebels (remember, Imperial weapons instead of the regular old Rebel ones)
-Rebel Soldier (blaster rifle, blaster pistol, 2 thermal detonators)
-Rebel Vanguard (rocket launcher (4 shots), blaster pistol, 2 thermal detonators, 2 mines)
-Rebel Pilot (blaster rifle (that way they're not rediculously hard to beat with those Diet Dr. Pepper shotguns), blaster pistol, 4 dispenser heath/ammo, fusion cutter)
-Rebel Sniper (sniper rifle, blaster pistol, 2 thermal detonators)
-Bothan Spy (shotgun (Darktrooper style), disguise kit, 5 time bombs)

I reckoned since they stole the weapons, they're not going to have that much ammo anyway. This'll be balanced out by the fact that the Imps have less reinforcements.

Imperials
-Blackhole Stormtrooper (basically just a Stormtrooper with a black suit) (blaster rifle, blaster pistol, 5 thermal detonators, 4 concussion grenades)
-Imperial Gunner (looks way cooler than the Shocktrooper) (rocket launcher (7 shots), blaster pistol, 4 thermal detonators, five mines)
-Imperial Pilot (mortar launcher, blaster pistol, 5 dispenser health/ammo, fusioncutter)
-Storm Commando (basically just a Scout Trooper with a black suit... Majin Revan actually made one for one of his maps... I forget which one though) (sniper rifle (with a few extra shots than normal), blaster rifle (a little weaker than your typical blaster rifle, since it'll only be a secondary weapon anyway), 6 thermal detonators)
-Imperial Officer (blaster rifle, blaster pistol, orbital strike, 2 thermal detonators)

As for vehicles, I was thinking just have the regular old TIE Fighters and Bombers for both sides. Since the Rebels did steal their weapons from the Imperials, they're not going to have an X-Wing or anything... Though I was also considering to add some TIE Interceptors... it would make a nice edition... And maybe even an AT-AT for the Imps, just to add a bit of a twist...


Well, I don't think the map would be too hard... that is, if I can get some help with it. Now, I think I'd be able to handle making the actual map itself. But I can't do things like modelling the Imperial Gunner and coloring the Blackhole Stormtrooper's armor black. I know, it must not be that hard for some of you guys, but I'm no modellor, so I wouldn't be able to do it.

Now, I'm hoping you guys will help, since I really need at least one or two modellors to help me out with some of the more difficult things (like creating the Imp Gunner). Also, if anyone else is willing to, I'm going to need some reference pics of the surface of Kessel, the buildings, the mines, etc. Since it is kinda hard to find good pics of Kessel's surface, it'll be hard to try and make a map for it without really knowing what it looks like. Now, I've never really seen any pics of the surface, but working with the pics of the planet itself, some of the stuff on starwars.com, and that one level from SW Rogue Leader, I can kinda get a good idea of what it looks like.

But help would be appreciated. So please, if you've got some pics that I could use for reference, or you're a modellor willing to help with some of the units/buildings/whatever, help me out. I'm hoping to make this a good map that I can really enjoy.

(Wow... that was a long post...)

this is a really good idea for a map, while I dont map, I can make skins and textures for this map

yep, it sounds like a good idea and I could hardly find any images for kessel (almost none via google) however I guess this just means you are able to have more room to play without having to conform to strcit guidelines (which I always feel is slightly better). I guess for models etc.. it is worth downloading the XSI mod tool and try using that, once you've got the hang of making models then download the XSI foundation 30 trial and the pandemic exporter so you can create msh's. Obviously this a long and complicated way of doing things, learning XSI and all that. Another way of doing things is to reskinning objects currently in SWBF or have a search through the assets to see if there are things that you can also add, there's plenty of stuff in there that wasn't in the final game.

Reskinning units etc.. isn't too bad once you know how to do it (as with everything), there's a great tutorial on the SatLabs website: http://www.saturnlabs.net/Tutorials.html that explains just how to reskin so you'd be able to get your blackhole stormtroopers that way. there's also the Urdor Hakon tutorial there which I don't know if you've seen some of the textures there may be of help for Kessel.

Hope that helps slightly,

Carb.

okay, has anyone here ever done like serouis moding to the characters, because you could create a yuzahn vong series, getting new maps, chachters, and weapons. like you could do the kessel thing, but like change it to make it REALLY cool, with new units and vehichals(is it possible to change vehaicles besides just new paint and weapons?) this is what the story line could be like(this is just a short example)

"As the New Republic battles on all fronts against the brutal Yuzahn Vong, a small force of Vong warriors move in to take kessel, in order to claim the spice to bribe the peace brigadiers to support them. The vailant gaurds struggle aggainst the yuzahn vong everwhere, but are overrun. Meanwhile, many persons have ecasped in the heat of the battle, and have stolen weapons from the armory.


Okay that is just part of it, but you could have all new units classes like yuzahn vong vangaurd, with razor bugs, thud bugs and amprhostaffs.and if you put vehicals in it, you need to have something to take them out with, so why not have grychens(if you don't know what any of this stuff is then i will explaine when you ask) then you could have like prison side, with new weapons, new skins too, and they are like prison miner, with mines and blaster rifle and stuff. you would need a amazing amount of help to do this, but you could create a whole series out of those charctes, mabey takeing out the prisoners after kessel, and replacing them with New republic units, like the bonthan spie and such.( i can't seem to take the italcic off, and sorry about the spelling)

oh and carbine, just find any sc fi world that is like a desert, i can already picture a few

Its not possible at the moment to model a functional character - so you guys just have to use re-skinned

but everything else can be made

all this sounds good

good luck

- Qdin

Have you drawn a preliminary Sketch? Draw a map of your basic desired CP and object(mine, barracks, etc) locations, then the community can easily help you place them.

(A retextured Ice cave/Hoth Tunnel Mix could make a good mine.Not hoth actually, sources say that the mines are pitch black, and are inhabited by monsters whichh can see in the dark-I think it was the 'Jedi Academy Trilogy'-You know with the Death Star Prototype, Maw Research Facility, Daala, ISD's Hydraa, Gorgon etc, the sun crusher, ohj yeah, han and this kid get sent to kessel.)

on your pc or use a scanner, and post it on photobucket, then use the [img]http.com[/img[ funtion ( or the FTP space your ISP gave you)


In case you think they were newly mdoelled, the Imperial Officer and Bothan Spy Came with the game.


Do you know how to change sides? Adding weapons, etc?

This forum has a very handy search button, but if I see some tutorials, I'll drop you a link.

Suggestion about new skins:Worn, tattered clothes for the rebels.

I can't believe no one's done kessel before.

Ace

but arn't there other units that didn't come with the game that people created. (not reskinned)

has anyone ever played the Kessel map on the old game Star Wars Rogue Squadron? This would be pretty cool if this map was made after that level

how? that was only air fighting, but i guess you could have the train as like a moving, destrutable cp, that would be really cool

Thanks for all the support guys. I know, this map isn't going to be easy, but that'll just make it all the more worth it in the end. I hope I can accomplish all I want, but we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out. Even if I can't get some of the things like the Imperial Gunner and stuff, I'll still at least try my hardest. (though I do wish to include everything I've decided on...)

@RDST: That sounds great! I'm in need of some kind of sky for the map. Could you possibly be able to do that? I don't know, I'm not an expert with sky files (every time I've attempted changing it I've failed misrebly) so I wouldn't know if that's possible. PM me about it if you're willing to try. I've got some reference pics if you need them.

@Carbine: Yeah, I was thinking of getting the XSI tools, but I don't think I'd be able to get the hang of it. I've never been very good at those kinds of things... and the reason is mostly because I just don't want to really go through the hard process of learning it... that is, unless it's (somewhat) like photoshop, which I'm a master at using.

I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew and get too aggrivated with the whole thing, and the XSI thing... well, I just think I'd get too frustrated with it to actually accomplish anything in the end (I don't really have much patience for it either. BFBuilder I can stand, but from what I've seen, I'd never be able to successfully learn XSI).

@deathmaster: Hey, that sounds pretty cool. It'd probably make an awsome map for sure. Though I'm quite partial to the GCW myself (big fan of the OT, you know?), and that's the era I really want to work within. Especially the timeframe between Battle of Hoth - Battle of Endor, since a lot of Rebel POWs were captured by the Imps of Hoth, and forced to work in the Kessel spice mines. I just thought it'd be a good plot for a story. It's different, that's for sure...

@Qdin: Well, that's basically what I was thinking. I've never been one to know the logistics of skinning, modelling, etc., but I did know it would be hard work creating a new unit from scratch. That's why I was mostly planning to get some help from you guys. Maybe a willing modellor/skinner/whatever may be able to make the Imp Gunner.

Afterall, all you really have to do is take the Rebel Vanguard helmet, adjust on that a bit, and stick it on a modified Imp Pilot body. Might work, I don't know. If anyone's willing to help, drop me a PM and we'll talk about it some more.

@Ace: Sketch? Of course! I always make rough-draft sketches before making a map. (though I've obviously really never gone far with any of the maps I've attempted...) But I was planning to have the Barracks, Mines, Armory, Prison, Command Center, and (maybe) and AT-AT. I'm not too sure about that, since I think it'd make it a bit too unbalanced... (even though I much prefer the Imps, I just can't go and purposly tip the odds in their favor...)

Here's the sketch. (I've drawn it out on paper (much more detailed), but I don't have a (working) scanner available, so this is the best I could do in such short notice. Sorry for the crappy quality, but I made it with paint... what do you expect?)

I don't really think I can do those mines so complicated though. Like you said, the Hoth tunnels might work for a good mine. Maybe have a few hazards, like huge pits, broken bridges, maybe even a rancor/sarlacc or something to represent the creatures that are supposed to lurk down there. From what I've read, the main creature is some kind of giant spider thing, so the sarlacc might be a good choice, since it's kinda... spidery...

To tell you the truth though, the only thing I really know how to do is edit the map. I've never been too good at editing mission files, sky files, units, stuff like that. So I'm definately going to need a lot of help with that. So PM me if you're willing to help explain some of the stuff to me. Remember, I'm new to this kind of thing. I've never really attempted making a map so complicated before, so I really have no clue what I'm doing. I may be getting myself into something way over my head here, but I want to really make this map. I'd like to come into the modding community with a really big start, and make a good map people can play.

The tattered clothing for the Rebs is a great idea too. I never would've thought of that. Very good idea. Now I'll really need a skinner if I hope to make these units (actually, the only unit I don't plan on changing now is the Imperial Pilot... he's the only one staying the same. The rest are either getting a new look, new weapons, or both...)

I agree with you on the fact that Kessel has never been done before. It just has so much potential for a map, I just couldn't resist making it. It's just a great place to set a map, what with all the hazards and all, makes it a very dangerous, and therefore very exciting and action-packed battle.

@geoman: In fact, that's the thing that inspired me to make this map. I'm basing almost all of it on that level from Rogue Squadron II. Just played it yesterday, in fact. I got a good idea on how to make that.

But the thing is, that level actually wasn't in Kessel... just some random Imperial base situated on an asteroid. But I've got a very good feeling that Kessel looks something like that.

So in response to what you said; Yes, this level will be based off of that level from Rogue Squadron II.

for some referancees to kessel loock up (or play) the old N64 game Rogue Squadron. theres 2 missions taking place on kessel in that game...or read some of the comics...

but in general kessel is red... kinda like mars actualy... and you will probably want some sort of hivering dust added to the map...limiting the visability... and giving more of a desolate atmosphere to the map

Maybe... I don't know. If I can figure out how to put some fog, I'll definately add it. Though, since my computer isn't exactly the fastest of computers (it lags a lot when there's a lot of rain/fog... especially maps like Yavin Arena and Rhen Var Citadel) I doubt I'll have a lot...

But I was actually imagining it to look somewhat like the moon. Grey, rocky, and just eerie kind of an atmosphere. I don't really know, I'll definately have to check out those comics and stuff.

I'm probably going to get started on the terrain tonight, and then add some buildings later.

You might want to find what makes a map fun, in design. This chemistry can be a lot more important then just scenary, and mood. When thing that I think that makes a map fun, are choke points, in which the two teams clash, and whoever can bust though is very rewarded. (IE:Rear Flank-walkway hallway, on bespin, the Bridges on Rippentuck's Ord Mantell map, the hallways on Coruscant:City) If find I like maps where the ai don't just go every which way, but seem to be organized. (Majins Thule Moon was a semingly pointless cp goose chase, while his Kadaara Coast forced the ai to descend/fight their way up/ a steep cliff, in only three, narrow climable spaces) Now, if you get this chemistry wrong, it could probably be fixed.

Hey, you may want to start a thread:What gameplay elements make maps fun, or search for one already made. I seem to remember a 'what makes maps fun'

Instead of modelling, you could use these premoddeled 'lego' blocks, available in the downloads section(this is a great community) You can change there texture(colour and bump map) to whatever you desire. Just edit or replace the current .tga files. This is very easy, especially for a photoshop user.

For the mines, you could simply increase darkness on the hoth and Rhenvar tunnel files, and turn them black and white, or start the new textures from scratch.

The bad news is, I am probably a worse or equivalent mapper to you. Only ever messed with paths, objects, and terrain. . .but I just started.

PS. The tunnels on your sketch seem awwfuly small, compared to the rest of the map. Its a very basic sketch. You might want to make one with the actuall command posts, hallways etc.

hmmm... seems to me the rebs will be WAY underpowered... maybe they should start out with a better position? cuz right now they have less ammo and less powerful weapons, and in addition they start out with 2 cps where as the imps have 4... hmmm seems like the imps will just take the rebs out in one fell swoop...

Yes, I understand having many choke points and huge battles going on all over. It's actually going to be a relatively small map. I have a better sketch on paper which I actually drew. I only made that crappy sketch in paint since you asked for one. Trust me, I've got this whole thing planned out very well, and I know where to put what and all that. I'm definately going to have a good mix of command posts, with a couple Rebels and Imps here and there, so as you'll never really go far without seeing a big battle going on. And that sketch I made wasn't exactly final, I just drew a couple of buildings and stuff to get the basic idea. The actual real sketch I have on paper is so much better, and I'm constantly changing it.

I don't really plan on making the mining tunnels that small/complicated either. I just drew a bunch of tunnels to get the basic idea of everything. It's not final, and I plan to just make them up as I go, making them very confusing and complicated, making it very easy to get lost and therefore give it an eerie atmosphere. I'm also planning, instead of putting just one neutral command post, I'm going to put two command posts, one belonging to each team, connected by a long, narrow tunnel, making it a choke point, and therefore adding some exciting action to the mines. I might also add a small cavern connecting the tunnels containing a sarlacc, so as when the two forces do clash, there's going to be mass hysteria with the sarlacc picking off soldiers left and right. Maybe a bridge or two spanning across a large pit and some sink holes and collapsed tunnels too, just to give it a "dangerous, unstable set of mines about to collaspe" feel to it all. It'll be chaotic, that's for sure. I'm sure it'll turn out to be one of the best parts of the map. I'll probably end up going to Rippentuck for some help with it too, since I know he'll be able to help (the mine in his Ord Mantell map, though small, was absolutely fantastic looking. It actually felt like a real mine with all the machinery and tunnels and stuff.)

But there'll be many other cool features, such as the hangers (which will definately have a few TIEs in them, and maybe an AT-ST or two) making for a great sky battle. The command center idea looks promising too, with it situated on top of a large hill in the middle of an enormous canyon, with a tiny little narrow bridge leading across. I've got an idea to change that command post at the bridge from Imps to Rebels, and therefore allowing a large clash of forces to take place on it, and giving it a sense, of danger, looming over the canyon like that, like it's about to collapse of something... maybe put the bridge on a tilt, so it seems like it's slowly sliding off the cliff, and could plunge down into the abyss at any second. It could work out to be a really great battle, with explosions going off, bullets flying past your face, and of course, the occasional soldier plunging to his death.

I'm also hoping to recruit a couple of modellors (maybe Lord Bandu, if he's willing to help) to make some custom objects for the map. I'm planning to include many things from the Rogue Squadron games. Here are some pics of some objects I hope to include:

The Imperial transport train (might make it a destroyable command post... though I doubt I'll be able to make it move or anything...)
Another look at the train (there's also some kinda watch tower thing in there too... I might use it)
Imperial landing pad (probably have it next to the hanger or something and have some vehicles spawn on it)
The facility (what I hope the map will look like when it's finished)
Here's some kind of generator or something (might make it a destroyable CP or something)
What I hope to make the bridge leading to the command center look like

I would also like to include a couple turbolasers like this, but unfortunately Saturn hasn't finished making them. But if he ever does finish, I'll probably add them in.

Whatever, I hope to make my map not only look good, but have a lot of fun factor too, and that means adding plenty of choke points, features, and cool locations and stuff. Don't worry about it, it's all planned out, I just got to get to working on it. (I'm also going to need to get a couple modellors to make some of those objects for me too...)

PS: Yeah, that sketch was more of a concept more than anything. I'm definately going to beef up the Rebels, give them a few more CPs, give them some ammo, etc. I'm not finished with the whole thing yet, just planning how I'm going to do this. (and remember, the Rebels have at least a hundred more reinforcements than the Imps (Imps - 300/350, Rebels - 400/450) so it'll be fairly balanced out)

Though I don't want to make the Rebels too strong, as they've just escaped from the prison. It's not like they're going to have all kinds of weapons and stuff. But I will figure something out, so the Rebels do have a chance when it comes around to it. (I actually plan to give each team four or five CPs, and plenty of Neutral CPs all around the place)

can you add like smokstacks and stuff, might be impossible though it would be cool, and you could have the new anti infantry turrets, mabey do like a updie down one in the hanger or something

If I can get someone to make a model for a smokestack, I could probably do one. All I'd have to do is place it on the map, and then attach a smoke effect to it. There's actually a tutorial on making a volcano and making it belch out smoke, so I'm pretty sure the smokestack would work the same way. I'll think about it, maybe add some kinda factory/foundry type building. Good idea.

And what turrets are you talking about? I only know of one kind...

The Endor Landing/atat docking station would be a useful model for more than one map.

well, i mean like the upside down ones on the ceiling. if posssible you could do a normal turret, but make it so that the person is above where the people are walking. also if you ever want to create the yuzahn vong thing, all you have to do is mod the rebal troopers. make there face scarred, make new wepons, i know that is possible, and they don't need vechicals, or you could put in those gungan things, those 2 legged things