Could you please continue that conversation via PM ? No offense, against either of you, but the less spam the LotR:BaHD thread contains, the easier it's to read, and the less likely a mod will intervene.

I think you should put an end to the "get-killed-to-kill-enter-play-again" mentality. Therefore, I think a there should be BAHD penalty in terms of points when dying, and it should take a lot longer to enter play again- so people will be doing everything to stay alive.

It's not really that kind of mentality, though. Your goal is always not to die, even though it happens often. That's pretty realistic to the Star Wars (and even LOTR) battles - people die regularly in them. It's kind of assuming that you're taking up a new soldier each time you respawn (at least, that's what it seems to me). Further, it would be a severe drag to have to wait ANY amount of time to get back into the battle. I personally hate even the multiplayer games that have a 10 - second timer, because that's just plain time wasted.

The only reason why I bring this next point up is beacuse it was recently made to work ingame: you could mod the Kaadu into a Horse (or even just leave it in Kaadu form, but mod it to either let you attack w/a weapon or better yet trample people . You might be able to ask Majin Revan or Teancum for their working ODF or w/e. It would just be absolutely satisfying to be able to trample people on a riding animal - you could put like two of them in the main hall ("now for wrath, now for ruin!"), and perhaps spawn several of them if you're planning on having Rohirrim come to the rescue (not sure if that's still a plan for you guys).

Also, I've been fiddling with the arrow volley, and it works, but here's the problem: the scatter distance (radius of the bombard) has to be 5 or less in order for it to be effective, and it's hard to be that accurate against a group of AI or whatnot. So at the moment, I'm trying to stick an explosion on each of the arrows that has a radius of 1, but no effect or push - just damage. That way, it would be much easier to be able to deal damage to more troops in a wider area. I'll keep you guys informed.

Protector_Pulch wrote:Could you please continue that conversation via PM ? No offense, against either of you, but the less spam the LotR:BaHD thread contains, the easier it's to read, and the less likely a mod will intervene.

That's fine with me.

@jangoisbaddest - Personally, I'd love the idea of a Kaadu trampling people, but as many have posted earlier in this thread, it would be hard, and a waste of time. If that DID happen, it would be VERY cool, but I'd be happy without it as well.

It shouldn't be too hard - isn't that characteristic already in the Hailfire's ODF? All you would need is the Kaadu + an addition of that (although it may have something to do with the msh - it's worth scoping out though, at least).

lol, and u guys think im just on here 24/7?....lol come on guys, Xwing Guy has been on his map since April i believe....he at least realises what QUALITY is....if you guys are going to take the quick and easy way out, to the dark side that leads;)....if you stay....if u complete your training, a great mod map you will release.

AJay

Dude if you DID know what you were talking about ud know that I was against putting other peoples model in our map. And even if I was for it, which im not, its not "a quick and easy" solution, if someone has a better model than you and it fits perfectly then its not a cursory solution but a smart one.

Aussie_Irishman wrote:lol, why do u think im working behind the scenes with no announcements or input from other people.....just so you know mate, i AM a modder, and yes i am well aware a model is difficult to create in XSI...i myself just got XSI, and i'm gna be looking at tutorials etc for it all tomorrow....so i'd think twice before u question my actions, when u dont know them at all...

AJay

I questioned your actions at the time of your post. Not after you read my post and decided to get XSI so you wouldnt sound like a hypocrite; bashing other ppl's models and motives when you have no idea what making a model is about. And yes i know you are a Modder, "have some idea what you are talking about, ZE and XSI are two completely different things." as i aknowledged there in my last post. All I ask for is the courtesy you denied me when you first posted and questioned MY actions.
If you want to be a hypocrite and tell me not to question YOU when you question my actions and motives first, then go ahead, im going to be working hard on Helm's Deep.

Anyways im hoping that the last distraction we get from the "perfect map faction" as I am tired of fighting and telling poeple that even if we wanted to it would be impossible to make this map completely accuarate. I know some might try to say that its not impossible, that im just lazy and I dont want to do the work involved that would make this map perfectly accurate but its seriously an unfeasible amount of work involved. Ill tell you one thing, good luck getting the ladders to work, the BF2 engine can only go so far.
If anyone has an issue with me or the map then you can do one of two things: join the map, its open to all, including you AJay, if you really want accuracy then do something about it and help us, im serious ill even teach you XSI. Barring that then stop whining on public forums and send me a PM.

Now back to working on HD I am officially done talking about this.

It's not really that kind of mentality, though. Your goal is always not to die, even though it happens often. That's pretty realistic to the Star Wars (and even LOTR) battles - people die regularly in them. It's kind of assuming that you're taking up a new soldier each time you respawn (at least, that's what it seems to me). Further, it would be a severe drag to have to wait ANY amount of time to get back into the battle. I personally hate even the multiplayer games that have a 10 - second timer, because that's just plain time wasted.

The only reason why I bring this next point up is beacuse it was recently made to work ingame: you could mod the Kaadu into a Horse (or even just leave it in Kaadu form, but mod it to either let you attack w/a weapon or better yet trample people Very Happy. You might be able to ask Majin Revan or Teancum for their working ODF or w/e. It would just be absolutely satisfying to be able to trample people on a riding animal - you could put like two of them in the main hall ("now for wrath, now for ruin!"), and perhaps spawn several of them if you're planning on having Rohirrim come to the rescue (not sure if that's still a plan for you guys).



Also, I've been fiddling with the arrow volley, and it works, but here's the problem: the scatter distance (radius of the bombard) has to be 5 or less in order for it to be effective, and it's hard to be that accurate against a group of AI or whatnot. So at the moment, I'm trying to stick an explosion on each of the arrows that has a radius of 1, but no effect or push - just damage. That way, it would be much easier to be able to deal damage to more troops in a wider area. I'll keep you guys informed.

First of all good work on the arrow thing Jango its really cool that someone is working on that. Also I really like the idea of using the Kaadus as horses, if Qdin, our animations specialist comes through for us we might even be able to give them some attacks while riding, no promises though, weve already got him working on some of our stuff.

Finally its seems like theres alot of confusion about what the death/respawn point ratio is gonna be like so heres how its gonna be:
Units behind the wall will have a couple respawn points interspaced throughout to make defending easier, if the enemy breaks through the wall or scales it using the towers then the defenders will notice that their defending job becomes a whole lot harder due to the fact that the attackers can now spawn inside the wall. Once the attackers get behind the wall, the majority of the defenders will want to fall back to the citadel. The citadel has two layers, outer walls and inner walls. The outer walls will have to be breached first before the inner walls can be breached. The outer walls have two entrances, from the main gate which can be attacked without having to breach the HD wall, and the gate thats behind the wall which is easier than the main gate to breach but to get to it you first have to scale the walls.
After that the attackers want to take hold of the core of the citadel which has three entrances, all equally difficult to breach but each a different challenge as one sits on a bridge, one is after a staircase, and one is in the low area between the outer wall and the citadel core. Once and If the Orcs ever reach the citadel then what they want to do is kill the rest of the defenders before the RR's come.
Chances are that most games wont make it that far and that the average game will end up with the orcs breaching the outer walls of the citadel which will give them a decent chance of defending themselves against the RR's. Thats basically how its gonna work, kill or be killed. [/quote]

About the Kaduus as horses. I don't know how it will turn out, I don't know of any horses with just two legs.

You mentioned ladders, there is a (somewhat) easy solution for this. Model a ladder, but make the collision just a solid, flat slab, maybe even with railings, and place the "ladder" at a slant against the wall so that a unit can just barely run up it. Yeah, it'll look like crap, but you'll have the tactical element of ladders added to the gameplay.

Im already doing that t5551, except were taking that same slant, bending it around to go up in a circle and putting a tower around the outside of it and calling it a siege tower. That was the best way I could think to do it because the siege tower can be convieniently made into a vehicle as well and it doesnt look like even 1% as dumb as carrying around a huge bulky ladder. Plus for the siege tower we already have a system in place by which you can destroy the bridge across if you are a defender. Plus this also keeps the tactical element of ladders in w/out ruining the overall polish of the level

Yeah, I guess that's a better idea.

I just took a look at the screens again: Where is that secret door Aragorn and Gimli sneaked through in the movie, and where is that little platform they walked on and from which they jumped on the main ramp ? In your map, this would be best done by making the distance between main ramp and little platform so high that only heroes can jump over it.

Protector_Pulch wrote:I just took a look at the screens again: Where is that secret door Aragorn and Gimli sneaked through in the movie, and where is that little platform they walked on and from which they jumped on the main ramp ? In your map, this would be best done by making the distance between main ramp and little platform so high that only heroes can jump over it.

That'd be a pretty sick sniper spot (For archers). I say make it so all units can jump to it.

Slayer_Hunter_J wrote:About the Kaduus as horses. I don't know how it will turn out, I don't know of any horses with just two legs.

Weren't there some Kaadu who had four legs. They were much bigger though:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/kaadu/
Besides, it wouldn't be perfect, but it'd be pretty interesting.

Yoyam, I like you.

Back on topic: I'm curious as to how you're going to make AI walk up the siege tower. Perhaps in that respect, it would indeed be better if you had just plain ol ramps that don't move (except by animations! Like if a defender deals enough damage to one, it will fall down, and an engineer will have to repair it, causing an animation that puts it back up). However, having already made the siege tower, I'm sure you won't want to do that. I just hope the AI isn't too stupid to use it .

Lol thanks And as for the AI planning, I havent talked much w/ Slayer about that but what we are planning on is alot of conditional stuff and scripting, so maybe we can make some designated spots on the wall where you have to take the tower to for it to be activated and then once you do that the AI paths become active and some unit spawn at the bottom that will run up, or maybe once you put the Tower into a designated spot it will turn into a prop that can be constructed like you were talking about.
But man I hate the stupid AI, if it wern't for them we could just make it so you could roll up to any old part of the wall, drop the bridge and rush in w/ your buddies, instead we gotta be the brains for these Artificial Idiots.

have you guys decided what skins you're using for your Uruks, rohirrim, heroes or elven warriors yet?....

AJay

not exactly skins Ajay Jabba is workin on models for uruks at the models so that wont be to bad:P?

fair enough....well, you guys asked for a rival map, so be on the look out for some announcements ok.

AJay

Are there any screenshots?

lol yes there are screen shots scattered throughout the 21 pages of posts, and personnaly i think it would be cool if nobs could somehow add links or the pics themselves so his first post on the fist page so it would be easy for everyone too see.

and as for a rival map only one i can possibly think of is XWing's Battle Above/Over Endor lol.

anyways i think you guys are doing an amazing job with this map and id love to join except i dont have XSI or any other programs like that and im not all that reliable with anything but i can help give ideas as im a big fan of LOTR and SW too lol

lol, by rival map, i mean a lord of the rings map....i've been speaking behind the scenes with some of the well known modders, and i'm about to announce my map SERIES within the next two weeks, when i have eough progress to announce it.

AJay

Looking forward to it For real.

And guys just for the record, this isnt a competition, there are no "rival maps". If Ajay and his motley modding crew make a better map then us then I wish him all the best because that means that theres two great star wars maps out there instead of one. The ultimate benificiary is the player, and I know I look foreward to playing HD and AJay's LOTR series.



Remember that this is GT, we make maps for fun, not to show off how cool we are or for the bragging rights.