I was wondering: does anyone know whether or not the light vehicles(rebel hovertank, speeder bike, etc etc) will execute proper physics in-game? I thought about this whenI was playing Halo the other day, and I noticed how much more fun it was to drive the warthog around than it was to pilot that damned IFT-X. I want to see vehicles rock back and forth after being hit by a missile! The speeder bike should tip over and roll if we turn to sharply! I hope this kind of thing is in BF2...

Doubt it. It just doesn't seem like Pandemic or Lucasarts to do that. I guess it's possible, but I wouldn't count on it.

Pandemic did it well with Mercenaries...

Yeah but Mercenaries looked like it had a bigger production value. SWBF2 seems like just an attempt to get as much out of the fanboys as possible while spending as little money as they can. Buisness factor must be taken into account. When we get closer to release more video should surface, but the ones so far give no reason to believe physics will be altered from the original. I would love to see more realistic physics... small vehicles swerving out of control when an explosion hits near them, to much of a jump causing speeders to flip..... but it seems like little more then wishful thinking for this game.

Plus, Star Wars isn;t knwon for it's realistic physics. (I mean, I can't see how the AAT's in the movies don't suffer and sort of shaking from firing that main cannon. Even with the anti recoil barrel.)

I think that I understand what kind of physics you are talking about (because I have played Halo). "Realistic" physics for vehicles that would be the equivalent to ragdoll physics for other games...It's not possible at the moment for this type of game. First off, you have all those soldiers running around on the battlefield at once, right? Everything, including vehicles, has to be accounted for. All those skeletons would have to be programmed with complexity, which would be too much for any processor to handle. Staying with me? Good.

To put it short, no processor can handle all those calculations at once. That is why Pandemic cannot implement ragdoll physics into the Battlefront series. To my knowledge, Battlefield 2 does not have ragdoll physics either...So there you go.

But there is hope...Just wait until the PhysX Processor comes out this winter...Once everyone adapts to it, games will go to the next step.

PhysX ? Do you have any link to informations about it ?

I'm a subscriber to Maximum PC and there was an article on it in the May issue. As I do have that issue sitting right here with me, I will type straight out of it (with all credit to Max PC).

--Introducing the World's First Physics Accelerator--
Is the added performance worth emptying gamers' pockets?

"Just when you thought gaming PCs couldn't become any more outlandish, expensive, or over-the-top, along comes the announcement of the industry's first add-in physics accelerator, due to arrive in time for the 2005 holiday season. Like the original 3D accelerators, it will fill an expansion slot in you PC and take on the increasingly heavy workload of calculating physics behaviors, including object collisions, particle effects, the animated "bones" in character, and more.

Named PhysX, the add-in board will most likely boast 128MB of GDDR-3 memory and will be offered in both PCI Express and PCI interfaces. According to Ageia (http://www.ageia.com), the company producing the technology, the addition of a dedicated physics accelerator to handle in-game physics will help shoulder the burden currently handled by already overstressed CPUs. For example, today's fastest CPUs are only capable of crunching the numbers for several hundred bones at one time. Ageia claims that with a physics accelerator, you could possibly perform calculations for up to 50,000 bones simultaneously, making massive Lord of the Rings-style battles and even more advanced effects like lifelike clothing, tissue, and hair simulation possible.

Ageia has reportedly already signed up 15 development teams to integrate its physics API into upcoming A-list games. The most notable signatory thus far is Epic Games, which has integrated PhysX technology into the eagerly anticipated Unreal 3 engine.

At press time, little information was available regarding specifics of the card, but a company representative gave a price range of $100 to $400, and availability is slated for the end of 2005. As soon as we can get our grubby hands on the product, we'll be sure to run it through the Maximum PC wringer."

Maximum PC, May 2005

And that's it. I'm really looking foward to it. It should bring gaming a whole step ahead. The only problem is, only dedicated gamers will buy this. The gaming industry is aiming at not just pleasing the hardcore, but also the "not-so-into-it" type of gamer. Thus, with these people not buying it, it would be a while until the card(s) finally made their way into accepted society. If Battlefront III utilized this technology and came out next year, it would make the game only available to the dedicated gamers who had the card.

The price of this card is rather reasonable for such an innovation...

Hakk9 wrote:I think that I understand what kind of physics you are talking about (because I have played Halo). "Realistic" physics for vehicles that would be the equivalent to ragdoll physics for other games...It's not possible at the moment for this type of game. First off, you have all those soldiers running around on the battlefield at once, right? Everything, including vehicles, has to be accounted for. All those skeletons would have to be programmed with complexity, which would be too much for any processor to handle. Staying with me? Good.

To put it short, no processor can handle all those calculations at once. That is why Pandemic cannot implement ragdoll physics into the Battlefront series. To my knowledge, Battlefield 2 does not have ragdoll physics either...So there you go.

But there is hope...Just wait until the PhysX Processor comes out this winter...Once everyone adapts to it, games will go to the next step.

Actually Battlefield 2 includes both ragdolls AND realistic physics for all vehicles and coordinates just as many if not more units on the same map as Battlefront. Plus Battlefield 2 also has a larger graphics draw and has more features.

The simple fact is, Pandemic COULD get all those things into SWBF 2 if they wanted, but they aren't... they can make the money just be doing what they are doing and have no real reason to push back thier release dates to add things like ragdolls, when the 'fanboyz' are going to buy thier same old sequences death routines for thier stormtrooper.

Weather or not the developers dream about real physics and ragdolls, and want them really doesn't matter for a starwars title... they have plenty preasure on them to just get it released. Look at SWBF 1 if you need anymore proof... all the unfinished content in it that I am SURE the devs would have loved to finish... unfortunately they are working under Lucas' budget and time deadlines rather than thier own.




~00M-9

Really now? I didn't think Battlefield 2 had "ragdoll," but if you say so...I'm just going by what I know. But, like I put, most fan boys don't have computers that can run that, and LucasArts wants the appeal to go to them also, so you have to limit it. Budget has nothing to do with it. Time possibly can play a factor, but Shara Miller said they had plenty of time to do everything they wanted, just about (not counting technology restrictions).

To end this, how about you guys ask Fred and get his input.

As a note, I want someone with some knowledge of anything to tell me if Battlefield 2 has true ragdoll physics, or is it just preset animations that are meant to mimic ragdoll...That may be what you are talking about. If it is, Battlefront 2 does have that some of that. They redid all animations to my knowledge. When guns drop, they bounce and so forth.

It does have ragdoll, but the ragdoll is limited by animations to stop it from appearing grotesque.

Yeah it has ragdoll. Got a soldier draped over my tank cannon barrel once. They are definately not just mimics. (I've seen games with mimics). Anyway, plain and simple is it could be done, graphics aren't completely an issue cause from what I've seen, Battlefront 2 is not as demanding as Battlefield 2. But from the looks of everything we have so far they aren't doing it.

Well...So it does. But the fact remains. They are trying to appeal to the fan boy crowd that doesn't have a screaming wicked PC. Mine could handle it easily, but most others couldn't. So...Why waste time programming it in when you'll make less money off of it. That's their way of thinking most likely.

As for BF2 physics...Like I said, all animations seem to be enhanced or redone. When guns drop, they bounce although the same animation every time gets old. Guns bouncing the same way and all...Whatever. But, to give the benefit of the doubt, it does look vastly improved over BF1. As for vehicles...It will feel like you have more control but physics I am not sure of. I just hope that weapons aren't attached to the unit anymore, as in the first. You know, when they were shot and dropped to the ground in the same position every time, and then they were shot by vehicle fire and flew across the air in the same flat position with the gun staying with them. What's up with that?! That always irritated the mess out of me. They definately could have taken their time to program that a heck of a lot better.

Edit: Also, this fact just came to my mind. Since they are obligated to make the PC and console versions exactly the same, the PC will have its limitations due to what the consoles can handle. Not in graphics (of course), but in physics, map size, unit count on field, and so on. That is a major factor.

Hakk9 wrote:Really now? I didn't think Battlefield 2 had "ragdoll," but if you say so...I'm just going by what I know. But, like I put, most fan boys don't have computers that can run that, and LucasArts wants the appeal to go to them also, so you have to limit it. Budget has nothing to do with it. Time possibly can play a factor, but Shara Miller said they had plenty of time to do everything they wanted, just about (not counting technology restrictions).

To end this, how about you guys ask Fred and get his input.

As a note, I want someone with some knowledge of anything to tell me if Battlefield 2 has true ragdoll physics, or is it just preset animations that are meant to mimic ragdoll...That may be what you are talking about. If it is, Battlefront 2 does have that some of that. They redid all animations to my knowledge. When guns drop, they bounce and so forth.

Pffft you don't have to get hostile because I dissagreed with you... glad you know I am just someone with no knowledge of anything...

But I agree with you that SWBF2 is appealing to the fanboyz... however I feel it is more the fact they are limiting thier games because of the console factor more than the fact they are toning it down for lower end systems. Battlefield 2 can run on some low systems... the designers made sure of that because they wanted as many old fans as new ones to buy it. With all the low settings most current gamers can run it. SWBF2 is limited by the designers and release criteria more than actual technology.

And as an after thought... I think we are all getting mixed up... BF2 is the EA created modern warfare game just released... BattleFIELD 2. SWBF2 is the soon to be released starwars copy of the EA formula BattleFRONT 2.

When I said Battlefield 2 has realistic physics I didn't mean to cause confusion

It seems we are all clear on that... but there are a few comments made that makes me not sure we are all understanding one another.

BattleFRONT 2 may or maynot have ragdolls, but BattleFIELD 2 most certainly does... I been playin it since it's release...

And I have Counter-Strike Source and HL2 and I know what ragdolls are.





~00M-9