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Modding guilt?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:51 pm
by Dreadnot9
(I don't know if this is the best section for this, but it seemed right).
It may be an odd term for it, but am I the only one who feels as if they copy others mods in some form or another (usually unintentionally)? As an example I'd cite my recent work on version two of my Rising Conflict mod, I created an engineer with the exact same weapons as Mav's imperial gunner in DT2. I feel odd about this for two reasons: 1. it's unoriginal (of course I'm making a clone wars era mod...so I suppose originality left the picture a while ago, ha) 2. I feel almost as if I'm plagiarizing somehow.

After typing up that paragraph I realize I didn't really have much of a point with this post, but I suppose it was just a question of if others experience this and how they avoid/cope.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:58 pm
by THEWULFMAN
It's pretty simple for me, I just don't copy other's work. I go for as original as I can go, sometimes to my detriment.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:52 pm
by Maveritchell
Yeah, it's easy - don't feel guilty. Being creative is not about making new concepts spring into being from the ether, it's about cleverly adapting other things. The best creators are able to adapt so many different concepts at once and with such fluidity that you don't recognize it as someone else's work, but it's still not purely a new idea (and that idea itself is better - and earlier - said as "good artists copy, great artists steal"). There's nothing new under the sun - everyone's copying something someone else did in some form or fashion.

In your example, you're using a similar concept to one I used, but my concept wasn't original either - the thought process is easy to follow. "Engineers in SWBF1 use ARC casters, and that's sort've a technical-related weapon, right? I mean, electricity? And then it only makes sense for the engineer unit to construct a turret, because [insert other mod or game here]." Bam, copied. We're all building off of archetypes.

The one thing I'd say is that I think it's good practice to be able to identify your sources of inspiration. I don't know if I'm a really great creative, as far as that goes, so maybe I'm not the best one to talk (about best practices), but I know that I can recognize where all the puzzle pieces came from. That serves two purposes - one, I don't ever delude myself into thinking my work isn't built off of someone else's, and two, I know what kinds of things I can tap more ideas from (i.e. other things similar to my original sources of inspiration).

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:17 pm
by TWINKEYRUNAWAY
THEWULFMAN wrote:It's pretty simple for me, I just don't copy others work. I go for as original as I can go, sometimes to my detriment.
I like to think more towards this way as well, but taking inspiration from others is also an excellent option. A small suggestion from me is that if the guilt is still there, its probably a sign to change something or experiment some more.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:02 am
by kinetosimpetus
If you're modding things significantly away from stock, think about every weapon, does it work as stock? Do I want to change it? How can I twist it just a little, or maybe a lot, to make it different from stock yet fit smoothly with the rest of the mod?
If it's more just putting stock weapons in different layouts, like a stock arccaster, pistol, autoturret, detpack, or whatever, maybe consider putting a different weapon on the turret, like a beam or chaingun.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:07 am
by tirpider
In modding, and other areas of work, there is sometimes a discrepancy between "keeping your hands clean" and "working to the end of your own conscience." Sometimes rules and laws don't cover all areas and while creative works certainly have a lot of rules and laws regulating attribution of derivative works, there are community standards that are sometimes looser or stricter about certain things.

I feel (not a rule or anything, but it might be a law somewhere.. idk) that if you use someone else's design to make a derivative work (which is all I ever do), then you should find a way to thank the person whose design you are using. Be it another modder, or LucasArts themselves, simple acknowledgment should be enough to keep your conscience clean.

Simple, like:
"Thanks to ModderXYZ and LucasArts for the Super Trooper this is based on."

Or:
"Supper Trooper design by ModderXYZ and LucasArts"

You could see it as a way to thank them for the idea, or spreading the word about their work as well as your own.

Regardless of what you do (in any walk of life,) I recommend "working to the end of your own conscience." If it feels wrong, then find a way to do it so that it feels right.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:14 am
by Loopy53
I like to go for things that haven't been done very often. For instance, having a realistic map, with iron sights, scripted goodies, etc. I try and add some basic features to separate my map from the others. Although I haven't released more than one map, those are what I am aiming for in EAP (Earth: Apocalypse) Also, I like to see polish. An average map with a lot of polishing (localization, no bugs, etc .) can beat a really good map that has no polishing. For EAP (and my TCW SBD) im aiming for polish. I also like to use high quality work as a reference and try to aim for the same quality of work while still being original. This is big for me. Lastly, I also like to have fun with it. If your not having fun on your map then chances are no one else will.

As far as guilt goes I havent experienced any of it because I have not been modding for very long. xD

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:29 pm
by noMatt
if you wake up someday and you think "hmm lets do a remake of this" is totaly ok, and i think in this case its ok to take someone else work. but if you make a mod, that you call "your own idea" and then copy someone others work is not ok. Except you credit him, but it wont be you own idea any longer.
Like Mav said there are no really "new ideas" in the world but theres a big diffrence between "Ah that dirty skinned clone trooper from ANYNAME looks awesome i might do one too" and "Lets download the clone trooper from ANYNAME and modify so it looks mine"

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:39 am
by BF2-Master
My modding "guilt" usually comes from the fact that I essentially couldn't mod for years without having to hold someone's hand the entire time. Still barely can, and it bites me even more than it used to, because now I'm more aware of my problems, and just feel a lot more powerless about all of it. I re-adjusted well into modding, but it's definitely a different ball game on a personal level, which has effected my interest and motivation.

That said, I don't feel too guilty when it comes to using other's assets as long as I remember to credit them. I'm trying to cut down on using other's user assets though as well.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:58 pm
by ARCTroopaNate
Yeah, whenever I'm planning a map I like to see how many assets I'll need, working on starting something again, looking at using a few weapon and player models, modelling is the only thing I have trouble with so I try to limit my assets to only using those, if I can make it decently myself I try to do so, try to limit assets made by others as much as possible.

Re: Modding guilt?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:58 am
by Fiodis
I know a guy who teaches art in a local high school. He frequently tells his students, "If you see something you like in a painting, take it and make it your own." Not just take it, mind you, but also make it your own; don't blindly reproduce someone else's work, for their sake and yours, but if you like a technique or image then incorporate it smoothly into your unique work.

Ex. "I really like Majin's UT-AT. I think I'll reskin it and use it in my mod."