-= Gametoast.com =-

As evident by this post, Gametoast is a great place to indirectly learn English through example. However, depending on whose example one is following, there is a chance one might be learning something wrong.

A mistake I see a lot on the forums by those who do or are at least trying to post meaningful messages is the comma splice. A comma splice is when a comma joins two independent clauses. An idependent clause is a complete thought; it has a subject and a predicate. An example of an independent clause:

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is an old game.

Another example of an independent clause:

I play it everyday.

An example of a comma splice:

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is an old game, I play it everyday.

There are a few options in how to fix this.

1) Make the two independent clauses each a seperate sentence.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is an old game. I play it everyday.

2) Join the two independent clauses with a semi-colon instead.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is an old game; I play it everyday.

3) Join the two independent clauses with a comma followed by a conjunction.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is an old game, yet I play it everyday.

As a reminder, conjunctions are FANBOYS. (For, And, Nor, But, Or, Yet, and So.)

To be honest, I didn't know about all this until my first year of college. Since then, I've kept this rule in mind whenever I write anything. I hope some of you will find this helpful.

Agreed. One thing that should be noted though is that semicolons should typically be used sparingly. They're basically used to connect two complete sentences as one thought (as pointed out above).

jeah I agree ^^

Haha. For some reason this just made me laugh. Not because I think it's stupid or anything. More because it's just so strange for a game modding forum to have a topic on the finer points of the English language.

I do agree though that proper English is always helpful to know. Probably not essential to survive, but helpful nonetheless.

Is there any chance of a grammar checker being implemented here on GT as well as spelling? That might come in handy...

Good luck to all those people who are struggling to understand the finer points of our convoluted and unnecessarily complex language.

Random observation - Marth avoids the problem completely by just not using punctuation.

On a related topic -- What I can't stand more than anything else is misspellings. It baffles me in this day and age when we type close to as much as we talk that we can't spell simple words right.

Teancum wrote:On a related topic -- What I can't stand more than anything else is misspellings. It baffles me in this day and age when we type close to as much as we talk that we can't spell simple words right.

Yea, i cant even thing off knot bieng abel two speel bacic werds in teh dey off speelchek.

Speaking of that, I hate when folks don't know when to capitalize and when not to.

Or When Every Single Word Starts With Caps.

Teancum wrote:Or When Every Single Word Starts With Caps.

Ugh, that's even more annoying than people who don't capitalize at all. Every word is like a needle piercing my eyeball...


Or also, When people capitalize Random words in a Sentence.

The thing I love the most isn't necessarily a grammatical thing, but when people type in annoying and hard to see colors.

Teancum wrote:Agreed. One thing that should be noted though is that semicolons should typically be used sparingly. They're basically used to connect two complete sentences as one thought (as pointed out above).

Semicolons can be used in this case as often as one desires as long as the two complete sentences are closely related.

The point of this topic is to help members who clearly already put effort into their posts, care about these grammar rules, and wish to learn more to improve in whatever ways possible. The point of this topic is not to complain about *those who butcher their messages, as having to worry about comma splices is the least of their worries.

The reason why I bring comma splices into attention is because I see certain members who are considered well-respected by others committing this mistake, which might cause others to do it as well, especially those who look up to these certain members. Heck, I used to even do it myself for this very reason.

lucasfart wrote:More because it's just so strange for a game modding forum to have a topic on the finer points of the English language.

This actually a very simple rule compared to others. It is simply: Don't connect two complete sentences with a comma. It might just be a hard one to pick up via examples.

A related topic is when non-native speakers who are barely learning the English language pick up Internet slang from *native speakers, mainly Americans, on Gametoast. It's simply not cool at all, especially on a forum.

Can I be the first to point out that I don't think ANYONE, long-term respected members or not, should be expected to use proper grammar at all times on the forums? I realize that there are non-native English speakers on the boards that are trying to learn, and yes, it's probably a common courtesy, but I'm lazy. I try to be as clear as I can, but things are gonna slip. Also, I use words like "gonna." It just happens. If I go to Germany, for example, I'm not going to be immersed in proper German grammar, I'm going to pick up on slang and abbrevations and laziness of the language users.

This is the internet. Not English and Language Arts class.

While I agree with some of your argument, using the fact that "this is the Internet" as an excuse for adapting bad English is such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny. You are correct, this is the Internet. So what? Why does that mean we can make ourselves look like idiots who can't even speak or type our own native language properly? Please, tell me; I would love to know.

I have to admit that due to time constraints I often fly onto the forums check email and blindly rage type as I think of things then mash submit and never look back. Sorry for that lol.

Marth8880 wrote:While I agree with some of your argument, using the fact that "this is the Internet" as an excuse for adapting bad English is such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny. You are correct, this is the Internet. So what? Why does that mean we can make ourselves look like idiots who can't even speak or type our own native language properly? Please, tell me; I would love to know.

I never said it's a reason to use bad grammar. My point was that "Because this is the internet, it should not be expected of us to use 100% proper grammar at all times, as it would be if we were in an English or Language Arts class."

You are correct, this is the Internet.

This is a comma splice. Ironic, isn't it?

using the fact that "this is the Internet" as an excuse for adapting bad English is such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny.

You're missing a comma at the end of your appositive phrase (after the word "strawman"), as the phrase is interrupting the sentence.

However, I do not expect you to fix these things, because this is a forum on the internet. I give you the common courtesy of ignoring these mistakes because, based on where I am, it is expected that the use of the English language (or any language, for that matter) will not be totally accurate.

You also need to chill out.

Twilight_Warrior wrote:

Marth8880 wrote:While I agree with some of your argument, using the fact that "this is the Internet" as an excuse for adapting bad English is such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny. You are correct, this is the Internet. So what? Why does that mean we can make ourselves look like idiots who can't even speak or type our own native language properly? Please, tell me; I would love to know.

I never said it's a reason to use bad grammar. My point was that "Because this is the internet, it should not be expected of us to use 100% proper grammar at all times, as it would be if we were in an English or Language Arts class."

Well no, of course not; so many people excuse their horrible English with "it da inter web a dont matt er ^^", and that is what I am talking about: completely incorrect English with lack of spelling/grammar/punctuation.

Twilight_Warrior wrote:

You are correct, this is the Internet.

This is a comma splice. Ironic, isn't it?

That's nice.

Twilight_Warrior wrote:

using the fact that "this is the Internet" as an excuse for adapting bad English is such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny.

You're missing a comma at the end of your appositive phrase (after the word "strawman"), as the phrase is interrupting the sentence.

Nope; a comma after "that" is the choice of the author, whereas a comma after "which" is required. Also, I'm not the idiot who you seem to see me as half the time; I know what an appositive phrase is.

Twilight_Warrior wrote:However, I do not expect you to fix these things, because this is a forum on the internet. I give you the common courtesy of ignoring these mistakes because, based on where I am, it is expected that the use of the English language (or any language, for that matter) will not be totally accurate.

For Christ's sake, I was talking about when people don't use any spelling/grammar/punctuation at all in the first place, the whole globe-wide argument about whether or not correct English actually matters at all on the Internet, even if this thread is specifically about comma splices (which it pretty much transitioned to the aforementioned topic either way).

Twilight_Warrior wrote:You also need to chill out.

Um, what? You don't even know me, nor can you conclude that I need to "chill out" over a wall of text.

Marth8880 wrote:

Twilight_Warrior wrote:

using the fact that "this is the Internet" as an excuse for adapting bad English is such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny.

You're missing a comma at the end of your appositive phrase (after the word "strawman"), as the phrase is interrupting the sentence.

Nope; a comma after "that" is the choice of the author, whereas a comma after "which" is required. Also, I'm not the idiot who you seem to see me as half the time; I know what an appositive phrase is.

You're still misunderstanding.
"such a foolish, petty strawman" (the appositive phrase) needs to have a comma both before and after it in order to signal returning to the original thought. You have the one before. You are missing the one after. The word "that" has nothing to do with it, and could even be left out of the sentence entirely. But my point remains that mistakes are made, even when you try so hard to use proper grammar, and we shouldn't be holding each other accountable for every little one.

Marth8880 wrote:

Twilight_Warrior wrote:However, I do not expect you to fix these things, because this is a forum on the internet. I give you the common courtesy of ignoring these mistakes because, based on where I am, it is expected that the use of the English language (or any language, for that matter) will not be totally accurate.

For Christ's sake, I was talking about when people don't use any spelling/grammar/punctuation at all in the first place, the whole globe-wide argument about whether or not correct English actually matters at all on the Internet, even if this thread is specifically about comma splices (which it pretty much transitioned to the aforementioned topic either way).

Yes, YOU are talking about whether proper grammar matters at all. I was talking about how proper grammar does not matter so much that we should be spending out time pointing out everyone's little mistakes. You accused me of the former. I defended my statement. Because proper grammar does matter, but not so much that mistakes are intolerable for the sake of our non-native English speaking members.

Marth8880 wrote:

Twilight_Warrior wrote:You also need to chill out.

Um, what? You don't even know me, nor can you conclude that I need to "chill out" over a wall of text.

No, I don't know you, but I can conclude with phrases such as "such a fallacious copout, such a foolish, petty strawman that it isn't even funny," " like idiots who can't even speak or type our own native language," "So what?," and the blatant sarcasm in "Please, tell me; I would love to know," that your stress levels were heightened during that response. And I know emotions can run high on the internet, especially when conflicting opinions are present. So if you believe you typed that response in a completely calm manner, I apologize, but it certainly did not come across that way.

Mmkay.

ITT: People argue heatedly over things of little consequence.