-= Gametoast.com =-

I never knew psyco0fred hated GT so much

Yah, we at GT like staying cool with each other (ego, whatever), and thats what the crediting is about. We don't credit LA/Pandemic because thats implied, while where we got everything else we are useinge isnt. I don't think theres any major wrong we're doing, at least not enough to get so hyped over.
I do get what Psyco0fred is saying about Mods giveing permission for us to use things that they legally have no authority over, but its a matter of site rules and the staying cool with each other thing (its like a club). I do think though we shouldnt have to wait forever for someone who isn't going to respond to give permision to us, to use a model.

Well I pray GT doesn't get shut down because of this crap. Frankly I'm tired of hearing about arguments of legality. If you so happened to want to talk about it, siding with Majin, please I also ask nicely that you guys discuss legality in some other thread. No disrespect to you Fred and Teancum. It's just a lot of us really don't wish to talk of it any longer...at least in this thread. I'm not junior moderating, but more over I am just asking politely, along with Majin, that you guys talk about this somewhere else.

As said I know what Fred means. But Teancum is also making great points. I take back me siding with anyone.. I'm going with a 50-50 thing.

Back to the models, etc, I would like Anakin's modified fighter - http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/A ... _v11;27780

How freakin awesome would it be to fly this thing?!

New Muunilinst space map should be made imo.

Okey - My personal addition into this to hopefully stop the whole Diet Dr. Pepper.

Fred, before talking about law, remember that there are MANY kinds of laws around the world. You're most likely breaking some russian law by dissing the site you're posting on... isn't that also 'double standard' (as you called it yourself)

Face it, man - there is no real laws for this as you're most likely following US Rules... But here in DK I'm pretty sure the law says we gotta credit if we do something despite it's not our own design...

And just to make it clear, i've already had this discussion with you where you actually said the opposite! You said back then that JUSTbe cause it's someone else's designs, it's STILL your own model and your own creation... and

that's something noone can take away from you, as it is your work.

Basically back then, you told me that if I made a model with i.e. MajinRevan's design of a foot, I wouldn't NEED to credit him for the design as I could most likely just pretend I never saw his design before... And the only reason I'd credit him for the design would be because it would be ethical for me to do so.
You then said that it was still MY work - MY work!! Noone can deny me that, as therefore it is mine. And therefore people weren't allowed to use it as they want, as for your precious law... which most doubt only works in USA. but what about us who's outside USA? I've never really seen any Internet Law against copyrights and all...

So in case you want me to say it in short:
Fred, you've said something different some weeks ago, and you convinced me - now you're going onto the other side? How can I believe in you??

2nd... How do we know what is legal? The copyrights might or might not cover the entire world...

3rd.. we just gotta wait 'till Georgey Lucey pass away and live an extra 80 years before we won't have to worry about Lawsuits or whatever it's called... :twisted:

Besides, Fred - This is the 'universe' of GT where we make the rules - so to say. It's always that way on the net. It's the magical and odd world of the internet. The difference is that we here at GT just tends to rather go for the superior best in the ethic ways.
'Cus what would really prevent someone from Guru to implement a virus to get transfered to your PC when you log in..?
The only thing preventing him would be himself.

You act like I'm the bad guy. I don't hate GT, I've supported GT from the beginning and monitor the boards daily. I make models regularly for GT members and help people probably more than I should, most of you know that firsthand.

I tell you all this stuff you don't want to hear for your own sake. I told you both sides of the issue, I'm just a guy in the middle. I've probably done more conversions than anyone. Tea of all people has benefited most from my contributions, and like I said this isn't some spat betwen the two of us, I know exactly where he's coming from and don't disagree with the position, but that doesn't change the law.

When GT is given the choice of breaking the law or not, and chooses to PUBLICLY make it policy to break the law despite being given clear guidelines of how to skirt it then I am going to have to publicly side with the law as someone who is accountable for their actions.

Remember the Lucas lawyers know how to contact me, so I am distancing myself from this, having provided all the info needed to make an informed decision.

Like I said I'm in favor of respecting the fans and crediting them, but requiring permission is an act that legally constitutes reassigning copyrights to the fan, and only Lucasfilm can do that with a peice of paper that grants GT a license to do so.

Copyrights may suck but Lucas has thrown people in jail for violating his copyright and it's a chance I'm not going to take by telling you it's okay to do it and going along with it. I won't be complicit and my actions informing you of the issues involved will be on record.

How hard is it to not post links and take things to PM or email when necessary in order to abide by GT's rules?

I don't know how to make any more clear.

wow - that was a better post than before xD finally you actually give us something clear to stand up against. I'm with Fred in the case about no links and all, but I'm ethically gonna credit people which it DID sound like you were against, Fred...

I get your situation now... I'm 60-40 with ya That's the fascinatng about the net... it's like watching South Park about that... George Washington signing some document The 'true essence of the Unites States of America! Our government do one thing, and we let the people say something else! Then we can do as we want, and STILL be against it!'

Who knows..? Especially considering USA still exists today, it looks like it actually works at some scale..? :shocked:

Rekubot wrote:It may have a skeleton, but I believe psych0fred released a BF2 compatible skeleton somewhere, so you should rig it to that. Then you won't have to worry about animating it. I think.

I'm not looking to convert it for battlefront, what I'm looking to do is have it animated it for a fanfilm. I didn't know if the model was rigged for animation, as I am not an animator, and I know very little about the subject.

I understand Psych0fred, as stated earlier. So, Teancum and Psych0fred, would the following statement suffice?

"If you are to use someone else's Star Wars model and convert it, you do NOT need permission from the author to convert it, as the author doesn't "own" it (LucasArts does, Star Wars was not made by the model's author). However, it would be ethical to at least cite the maker of the model somewhere in the README file. But again, permission is NOT required, and asking for it IS illegal (it's like asking the customizer of a Honda Civic if you can take the Honda Civic and re-distribute it in mass quantities with a different name - you need to ask Honda, not the customizer)."


If Teancum and Psych0fred do not like my statement and use it (or something similar) as the "guidelines," I fail to understand why. It sticks to the law, as Psych0fred would like (and I don't blame him at all), and it cites the author, which is close to asking permission, as Teancum would like (but asking permission outright could get Psych0fred and the rest of us into legal trouble).

And for real, this internal fighting is quite ridiculous. GameToast is one of my favorite sites, and I'd hate to see it bogged down by this or even shut down. That would suck.

- PR-0927/Majin Revan

Sorry to break this up a bit, but I have to sidetrack the topic a little further.

You don't even need to change the association, really. Winzip can open them just fine right off the bat.

7-Zip also recognizes .pk3 as an archive immediately, and all you have to do is extract the contents.

Just to clarify, yes the programs themselves recognize the pk3 format, but the OS doesn't. Changing the filetype association means you only need to click the file (via Windows Explorer, aka "My Computer") and the OS goes to whatever program it's associated with to open it, without he need for changing extensions constantly or navigating to the file through the program itself. I never said anything about the programs not recognizing pk3 files. x_x

All right everybody! I'd hate to be the one that caused GT to shut down. So the bottom line is:

1. Although it is technically illegal to mod SWBF, LucasArts doesn't care.

2. LA owns the rights to every single thing about Star Wars. If we were to be 100% legal, we'd ask LA for permission. They don't sue us because... THEY DON'T CARE.

3. Asking for permission is Gametoast policy. Not the law. They can't legally give you permission, but it's a matter of ethics.

There! Now, could we please get back to modelling. If you really want to discuss this, go ahead and start a new thread. But seriously, folks, you're starting to scare the creator of the thread away. And we wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we?

Actually, yeah--I'd have to agree. If anyone feels that this issue needs to be discussed further (in fact, I think it does) it would be nice if a new thread could be started. I want to see some JKA models converted!

Back on topic, who here has the full version of XSI Modtools? I downloaded an older version of Milkshape and I have converted a few models to XSI format. So who can I send them to to get them functional? (Most are character models, so if any additional software/expertise/whatever is needed to get them to work, he/she should have that, too.) Can I get a show of hands?

shhhhhh. Im jaywalking.

ARC_Commander wrote:All right everybody! I'd hate to be the one that caused GT to shut down. So the bottom line is:

1. Although it is technically illegal to mod SWBF, LucasArts doesn't care.

2. LA owns the rights to every single thing about Star Wars. If we were to be 100% legal, we'd ask LA for permission. They don't sue us because... THEY DON'T CARE.

3. Asking for permission is Gametoast policy. Not the law. They can't legally give you permission, but it's a matter of ethics.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

MercuryNoodles wrote:Just to clarify, yes the programs themselves recognize the pk3 format, but the OS doesn't.

The .pk3 file format can be associated with 7-Zip during installation thus making it the program that opens this file without having to change anything which in turn makes your life much easier.

ARC_Commander wrote:Asking for permission is Gametoast policy. Not the law. They can't legally give you permission, but it's a matter of ethics.

I hate to prolong the argument, but I don't agree with that above statement. Well, mostly. I understand the permission thing. However, what I also understand is that Psych0fred can get into serious legal trouble because of it. Even if I make my own model of say, an AT-AP, I don't own it, so asking me for permission to use it is...ridiculous? LucasArts owns it. However, I do believe that I should be credited for such a model (something like "thanks to PR-0927/Majin Revan for making the AT-AP model"). If I didn't want my model to be used by others, I would not distribute it freely. "Asking for permission" is kind of ridiculous already, if you think about it. By distributing it, the permission is pretty much already given. It'd be O.K. if I gave it to one or two people and told them not to give it to anyone else.

Now, back to model converting. This debate has stopped my drooling for stuff in this thread, and nobody does that that to me.



- PR-0927/Majin Revan

Now I get it. I agree. Releasing it means they've given you permission. Crediting them is what should be done. As the creator of the thread, I deem the argument officially over. [slaps self] Must... fight... instinct... to... say... cheesy... stuff...

Still, the argument is officially over. Now, back to modding! This is one nice Obi-Wan model right here. Waaaaayyyyy better than Pandemic's, in my opinion. http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/O ... nobi;46752

A cool Mon Cal officer: http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Mon_Calamari;9832

Some seriously nice Royal Guards: http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/R ... Kanos;4654

Boussh: http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Boushh;3622

Kit Fisto! : http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Kit_Fisto;6028

A bunch of protocol droids: http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/C ... _4LOM;4358

If anything, convert the protocol droids and Kit Fisto.

Can someone convert these models?

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/C ... FINAL;8827 Halo Covenant Elite

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/C ... tima;53471 Clone Pack if no one converted it yet

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/M ... ifle;68940 The Halo Assault Rifle

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/J ... a_VM;57434 a more human-like jango and boba

So...
Do we need to ask the creator if we can convert their model or not?

Alright, I have 23 days left of Milkshape. I can convert almost any model to .xsi PMed to me within 23 days. I will check that textures show up properly in XSI Mod Tool but after that, someone else will need to take the exported .xsi and add whatever needs to be added to make it a weapon/player model/vehicle etc...

So PM me and I will convert (and email the creator if necessary)!

Few exceptions though...

Some player models are built with one .glm file. Sometimes, the file comes out with random parts attached to it when I import it into XSI.

Another rule. It must be a model! No reskins. It MUST be in the model section.

Finally, I'll only convert models PMed to me.

So far PMed to me...

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/J ... a_VM;57434
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/M ... ians;20802
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/C ... tima;53471

Don't PM me to convert these models. I've already been asked.

Darth_Z13 wrote:So...
Do we need to ask the creator if we can convert their model or not?

It's gametoast policy that you do. It's just the courteous thing to do. Though *technically* there is no legal need, we ask that you do so in order to post files here.

And of course, as someone said, if you made something using someone else's fictional universe, the work is yours and the IP for the design or base idea is the original creators. Unless thats been changed, But then again, lawas, especially smaller details differ from nation to nation (and lower!)...and from planet to planet. SO IDK whose talking from where. But, yeah, fighting ftl etc etc.

P.S. SS forums have banned the internet...odd. OR maybe not.

Psych0fred has banned all GT people from his site. He says to do what you want (in a "whatever" type of way), and he himself is in the middle of both sides. But, his argument makes complete and perfect sense. Asking for permission may be ethical, but it is illegal, and you can get yourself into SERIOUS legal trouble. If someone "gives permission" to someone else to do whatever to the model, that person might sell it or put it in TurboSquid's crap. LucasArts will bring the lawyers down on that. Authors have no power to "give permission." So, we should do the legal thing - credit.

- PR-0927/Majin Revan