-= Gametoast.com =-

I have a couple of ideas floating around right now for each of the settings that might add some kick to them.

I can't vote. Whenever I try to vote it takes me to this: http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.com/poll_vote.pro
and the screen is just white.

Hmmmm. Canyon sounds pretty interesting.

I personally vote for Island, I disagree with what Skyhammer_216 said about water it will work just fine so long as you know what you are doing.

My reasons for not choosing the others are:
Caves, well I'm sure we all know the result of this will be reskins of the Hoth corridors over and over and then one or two new looking maps which have similar to exact gameplay as the Hoth corridor remakes.

Forest, I do maps like this all the time and most maps that are made are forests, although they usually end up with the most decent gameplay even for new mappers but they really can't be made much more than that without a lot more work more than it would for another environment to really give you a feeling that you aren't just playing the same old map.

Canyon/Ravine, this would end up fine most of the time but sheer terrain walls don't work and I'm sure we will get plenty of those. Also I figure that many maps will end up with little to no props placed due to the nature of terrain usage in this type of map.

Desert, need I explain?

And why I chose island is, well I just got the urge to make one after I read Skyhammers post no offence but I just really felt like making an island map the moment after I read your post and regardless of the competition I will make an island map. Also I haven't seen a single true to the word island map, feel free to correct me but as of yet I have not found a single full island map so playing many of these it will truly be something new and a breath of fresh air from the same old clones kill droids in this map that I have played multiple times under many different names.

bobfinkl wrote:I personally vote for Island, I disagree with what Skyhammer_216 said about water it will work just fine so long as you know what you are doing.

Well, so long as its made obvious if that is the environ chosing (ie Mav posts it in the introduction new topic on FF) then I guess there shouldn't be problems.

bobfinkl wrote:My reasons for not choosing the others are:
Caves, well I'm sure we all know the result of this will be reskins of the Hoth corridors over and over and then one or two new looking maps which have similar to exact gameplay as the Hoth corridor remakes.

Probably true, but like i said i'm willing to make a LOT of lego-able new caves (they're ridiculously easy) if this is the environ chosen and post the link in the introduction topic. Also, as RED51 proved, its quite possible to make a nice cave without using any tunnel/cave objects at all.

bobfinkl wrote:Forest, I do maps like this all the time and most maps that are made are forests, although they usually end up with the most decent gameplay even for new mappers but they really can't be made much more than that without a lot more work more than it would for another environment to really give you a feeling that you aren't just playing the same old map.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

bobfinkl wrote:Canyon/Ravine, this would end up fine most of the time but sheer terrain walls don't work and I'm sure we will get plenty of those. Also I figure that many maps will end up with little to no props placed due to the nature of terrain usage in this type of map.

Umm...geo and tatooine rocks = good for this. Yes some people will do a rubbish job, but there'll be some mediocre maps no matter what the topic is.

bobfinkl wrote:Also I haven't seen a single true to the word island map, feel free to correct me but as of yet I have not found a single full island map so playing many of these it will truly be something new and a breath of fresh air from the same old clones kill droids in this map that I have played multiple times under many different names.

Ummm...by island you mean island completely surrounded by water? :S

-Stock Kashyyyk Islands.
-YaNkFaN's Khimera Island. Totally surrounded by water.
-My Kadrala - technically there's land around it but its not used in conquest and its water surrounded.
-Jedimaster's Island map, can't remember the name (crashes a lot )
Sure there's plenty more too......

Skyhammer_216 wrote:Probably true, but like i said i'm willing to make a LOT of lego-able new caves (they're ridiculously easy) if this is the environ chosen and post the link in the introduction topic. Also, as RED51 proved, its quite possible to make a nice cave without using any tunnel/cave objects at all.

This may be true, but cave maps/interior maps tend to have similar to exact same gameplay (difference would be Death star, it's really quite diverse). I doubt any maps will truly have different gameplay they may look different but the core gameplay is going to be near exact.

Skyhammer_216 wrote:My Kadrala - technically there's land around it but its not used in conquest and its water surrounded.

Ah, yes that must have slipped my mind at that time. As for the others Kashyyyk: Islands is from bf1 (although in the conversion pack) I discluded it from what I meant, Jedimasters island map never heard of it or seen it before care to give me a link? And as for YaNkFaN's Khimera I never knew it was entirely surrounded by water but then again I never played the whole mappack because I disliked the gameplay.

Skyhammer_216 wrote:Umm...geo and tatooine rocks = good for this. Yes some people will do a rubbish job, but there'll be some mediocre maps no matter what the topic is.

True but what I meant is that simply the type of map will encourage the lack of prop usage, and personally whenever I make a desertish/canyon map I can never find enough models that can really build the cliffs right or props to populate the landscape which this also could be solved but I doubt if it were solved would help very much.

Actually, after testing a few things I'm inclined to go with beach/islands, because the water thing doesn't seem too bad, and if you've got lots you can always fog + low view distance anyway.
Oh and I noticed that on Kadrala the water actually goes PAST the terrain extents of the map. That would explain part of the problem, then.

@bobfinkl: sorry haven't got a link for it, not sure there even is one anymore.

I can't vote over at Filefront. When I click on my option, all I get is a blank page.

Same here.

Nova Hawk wrote:I can't vote over at Filefront. When I click on my option, all I get is a blank page.

Everyone gets that it's an established issue, I believe Mav is just counting all the votes manually.

I really hope it is caves. As Sky said, you don't need tunnel objects to make caves, in fact, all one really needs are large enough rocks to cover the ceiling. By doing this, you can make really fantastic caves like for example, a underground jungle, city, and even a hanger. If that doesn't get in, then my second pick would be canyons. Even with that one, I could make it look cave-like.

I'm now also completely going for Caves. I think some really great things can be done with it and remember, "caves" would only be a theme, it doesn't mean you can't have a canyon part or underground lake part or something else.

I also disagree with Bobfinkl's statement about cave/interior maps tending to have the exact same gameplay. Every map is different and okay, if everybody were to use the same hoth tunnel assets, it may start to look like eachother, but I must say that I find every tunnel to play different (look at the differences between your snowcapped forrest map, at the Khimera vulcano, the tunnel/volcano maze in Xavious' maps, I could go on and on and on.)
Also, there are a lot more assets out there, so I can't see why that should be a downside (and there are quite a few modellers out there as well, who can make entire new caves)
I really think that having a contest based on caves could potentially let fantastic new maps come forth.

mswf wrote:but I must say that I find every tunnel to play different (look at the differences between your snowcapped forrest map, at the Khimera vulcano, the tunnel/volcano maze in Xavious' maps, I could go on and on and on.)

Only differences I noticed in gameplay were because of the different sides, and trust me the side styles are VERY different between all 3 maps. Give them all stock sides and you won't notice the difference.

But the differences also lay in the layout (how it feld to go from corner to corner), how the the ambience of the map was set (the type of reskin) and how the cover was lain out (gameplay with a lot of cover versus scarce cover) plus the general ambience (lighting and weather) setting on the map.
It's important not to underestimate how much "power" lays in affecting how the players "feel" when playing a map. (= the strength that lays in the combination of all factors set by a mapper)

bobfinkl wrote:Only differences I noticed in gameplay were because of the different sides, and trust me the side styles are VERY different between all 3 maps. Give them all stock sides and you won't notice the difference.

If you want to generalize to that level you may as well take it to its maximum and say that "all interior maps generally play the same" and "all exterior maps generally play the same." Yes, all interior maps (and by extension caves) often share some aspects of gameplay, but the visuals of a conquest map are almost irrelevant. You could make a cave map with an identical layout to any of the stock interior maps, and certainly they are not all the same? Whether something is a creative use of an environment is contingent upon the mapper, not the environment.

P.S.

Also I haven't seen a single true to the word island map

http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... _03;104795
http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... said;85697
http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... lave;81234

This may be true, but cave maps/interior maps tend to have similar to exact same gameplay

http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... _02;100427
-The first section is caves, and while it is not the conquest section, the caves could be adapted to a platform-style map despite being in "caves."

Maveritchell wrote: P.S.

Also I haven't seen a single true to the word island map

http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... _03;104795
http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... said;85697
http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... lave;81234

pwned

Maveritchell wrote:P.S.

http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... _03;104795
http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... said;85697
http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.co ... lave;81234

Geographically speaking no (besides Spira that is 100% island map), gameplay/environment yes. Thanks for reminding me of those I tend to have a bad memory like that (and I had never seen Spira one before so now I actually have a true to the word island map).

Maveritchell wrote:If you want to generalize to that level you may as well take it to its maximum and say that "all interior maps generally play the same" and "all exterior maps generally play the same." Yes, all interior maps (and by extension caves) often share some aspects of gameplay, but the visuals of a conquest map are almost irrelevant. You could make a cave map with an identical layout to any of the stock interior maps, and certainly they are not all the same? Whether something is a creative use of an environment is contingent upon the mapper, not the environment

Besides the Death Star level I have that exact issue with interior maps, they all play the same for me please note I am excluding visuals totally from this I never said (nor is it possible to create a plausible argument) that you can't make interior maps look different.

Maveritchell wrote:-The first section is caves, and while it is not the conquest section, the caves could be adapted to a platform-style map despite being in "caves."

If this is allowed in the competition than I have no issue with the cave maps option, while I still personally prefer the islands option.

bobfinkl wrote:Geographically speaking no (besides Spira that is 100% island map), gameplay/environment yes.

Actually, they are all - "geographically speaking" - islands, since they are all surrounded by water(/lava) on all sides. Bakura and Sullust both have mountains in the background, but for all intents and purposes they are just scenery, since they are outside the mapbounds.

That is neither here nor there, though, because my point is that you can be creative with any environment and you can be stale with any environment. As far as the contest's theme goes, either islands or caverns would be a good one to explore since neither one is overused. I tend to prefer interior maps (since the temptation to spread things out too much is usually avoided), but either option would be great.

I'm guessing that islands and caves are tied up?

Maveritchell wrote:Actually, they are all - "geographically speaking" - islands, since they are all surrounded by water(/lava) on all sides. Bakura and Sullust both have mountains in the background, but for all intents and purposes they are just scenery, since they are outside the mapbounds.

What I meant by "Geographically speaking" is how a university physical geologist would define an island (I took physical geography a year ago and know that stuff), which as you have it would not be an island would really.

And RED51, looking at the votes on swbffiles directly it sure seems more like it's canyon/ravine to caves all tied up.