I'm still in the process of reskinning the soldier units, but I didn't think about reskinning the vehicles. Thanks.

Protector_Pulch wrote:I wonder how you want to keep the CIS from rushing the GAR within a few seconds.

When you say "rushing", do you mean the landzone CP for the attackers? The attacker's landzone CP is uncaptureable and guarded by autoturrets, so even if they did rush, they would be outnumbered very quickly by guys spawning in.


Speaking of skins... Aksel, are you still going to make some skins for this map, or should I go ahead?

I'd happily beta test again for you archer01, I believe that this is the first campaign mode that has been created, and I'd love to be one of the first people to give it a try.

Aksel3 has gone AWOL, I expect he'll be back soon.

It's the first??!? Yow...


Anyway, I've got testers for this map secured. Thanks guys.
I hope you'll have some input for me soon.

Well, first reactions is wow. I've played the campaign 3 times now, twice as the Republic and once as the CIS. One victory as the CIS, one victory as the Republic, and one defeat as the Republic. Let's get straight onto what I think should be changed:

1)


I'm not entirely sure whether you intended the water to be like that or not, but I just thought I'd point it out.

2) The Jedi ought to be stronger. You wait ages for them to be unlocked while getting flattened by the droid forces, go to destroy the shield generator and get instantly picked off by a hail of laser fire. I think they should have increased health and auto-heal (not particularly strong auto-heal, but they should at least be able to recover).

3) The shield generator is pretty hard to take down. I'm not bothered by its strength (in fact I like a challenge) but other people might get bored being flattened by the droids as soon as they enter the vicinity. Just thought I'd mention it.

4) There seems to be some localization problems in that in my version of the game (UK English) I don't have any instructions on what to do in the campaign mode, all I can do is follow the arrow and be surprised.

5) You never get to play as the Sith in the campaign because as soon as you wear the Republic forces down to 0 you get the victory message.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'm going to play it again to try and find some other things to improve. Overall it's a great map and I enjoy playing it.

Aksel, are you still going to make some skins for this map, or should I go ahead?

I'm so sorry. I've had huge problems with my Computer, and when I finally got it fixed, my Internet Connection went off. I've just returned the school lately, so I've been very busy, but if it isn't to late, I would be happy to make some skins for you.

Wow Archer that looks great!! I wish I knew how to do that!!

Thanks Rekubot! I'm happy you enjoyed it. Now to the discussion...

Rekubot wrote:1) I'm not entirely sure whether you intended the water to be like that or not, but I just thought I'd point it out.

Yeh... Unfortunaly, since multiple layers of water is not supported by the game, I can't recreate the pond. I also can't change the model, and I'm not sure how to make the water completely transparent (I tried and that was the result). Since it was different and looked sort of "creepy" I left it. There must be some way to fix it, any idea how?

2) The Jedi ought to be stronger. You wait ages for them to be unlocked while getting flattened by the droid forces, go to destroy the shield generator and get instantly picked off by a hail of laser fire. I think they should have increased health and auto-heal (not particularly strong auto-heal, but they should at least be able to recover).

The reason I gave the Jedi health packs instead of the autoheal ability, is that the autoheal cancels the Mindtrick effect (any stealth field weapon is affected by this). As to their health: I'll increase it, but by how much do you think? Since their purpose is purely attack-support against the generator, not to attack it themselves (that's the job of the anti-armour units, see below), I don't want to overpower them.

4) There seems to be some localization problems in that in my version of the game (UK English) I don't have any instructions on what to do in the campaign mode, all I can do is follow the arrow and be surprised.

3) The shield generator is pretty hard to take down. I'm not bothered by its strength (in fact I like a challenge) but other people might get bored being flattened by the droids as soon as they enter the vicinity. Just thought I'd mention it.

Sorry about the localization problem. Usually I just copy-paste the US-English into all the other languages (I'm terrible with other languages) but since the mode wasn't finished, I hadn't done that yet.

On a similar note: The generator... Was it the droids, or was it the radiation (damage region) around the generator? I mention in the objective that getting too close to the generator is dangerous. Now you have to get REALLY close (melee range) but there is a reason for this: It was too easy for the Jedi to just jump on top of the generator and slash away without fear of getting shot.

That aside though, you are right about the hail of fire. I'm hopeing that when I get the AI to spread out to the choke points, that this problem will at least be reduced. Another thought: How do you think it would be if I moved the CP to the other side of the tunnel? I think I'll do that unless you can think of some reason not to.

5) You never get to play as the Sith in the campaign because as soon as you wear the Republic forces down to 0 you get the victory message.

I'm assuming you were able to keep the CPs then huh? That's a slight flaw I've been trying to think of a way to fix for a while now... At the moment, the defenders have an advantage, but I'll try to fix this.


Anyway, thanks again for testing it! If you don't mind, I'll make a couple changes (move the CP, fix the localizer, etc) and then send you another link to try it out. Talk to you later.



@Aksel3
It's not too late! It would be VERY helpful if you could make some skins for the Empire, CIS, and Rebels. I've already done a couple of the Republic skins myself so I'm going to try and finish the rest of that faction if you don't mind.

@Hebes24
It's not that tough, but mind you I've had training in computer programming so I have an advantage. If you get the desire to be reckless, take a look at the campaign scripts and see if you can follow them. They may be long (and complicated), but just take it one objective at a time, and after a while you should be able to understand it (but don't feel bad if you can't. People usually go through years of schooling for this kind of stuff).

All I have to say is Wow. This map is amazing. I love the fighting on the elevated platforms, and the snipers give traveling across the forest and platforms a whole new dimension.

And now.. for the bugs/suggestions.

Okay, I didnt see any bugs really, just a few odds and ends. For example; sometimes the AI will fall off the platforms or get stuck on the platform's paths while they arent even on the platforms. There isnt anything wrong with it, its just odd.

I loved how you reskinned the hoth caves and bunkers and put them in there, but I cant really say that they were used. The main problem is that they are too far away from the action, so they cant really come to much use. I would suggest putting those bunkers and tunnels under the platform area, and adding a bridge across the river connecting to the bunkers, while there are CPs in there. That would be crazyness.

Auto turrets- I love the idea of having them placed around the base CPs, but I think they might be a little overkill. I can hardly get to either of the cps without dying, let alone being able to capture them. A few is great, but I think taking away one or two would enhance the map.

The area surrounding the map- I must say.. its a bit to.. shall we say.. vast. There isnt really anything going there. I would suggest aybe adding a a thick layer of trees around and on the hills. Then theres the sky.. its a bit vast also. Adding like a few star destroyer animations would give it a better feeling.

I loved how you required that you have to have 5 CPs to unlock the jedi. That definitely gave the map more objective. then theres the flying ships. I loved shooting down those droid ships..so much fun.. (maybe making it so killing one gives you X amount of points? Dunno.)

Overall- Great map. Loved it. A bit of editing could make the map much better.

You dont have to take any of my suggestions.. I admit they would take alot of work to do, and would change the feeling of the map almost completely. Its your map, do what you will with it. We'll love it all the same.



And what do you all mean by campaign? I dont see a campaign mode.. or a shield generator..

If you have [RDH]Zerted's shell.lvl, the campaign mode is called 'space assault'. It only works in the Clone Wars.

@archer01: How about adding an extra CP so that there's one on each end? That would make for some pretty intense battling in the tunnels, or is that not what you're aiming for? And yes, I really did get hit by a hail of blaster fire . The only time I had trouble with the death region was when I deliberately lost the first part, became a Sith and started jumping about on it, LoL.

Hey xdragon,

Thanks for taking the time to give your input. I'll start by responding to the idea about the tunnel. Actually, the original design I created had several levels, each with it's own routes and hidden turns. Unfortunalty, my idea was toast when I opened ZeroEditor for the first time to find that this game doesn't support 3D pathing. Basically, what that means is that given three routes all on top of one another, the AI could only use one of them, never the others. Needless to say I was disappointed, but I continued and came up with a work-around I was happy with. This map setup was the result.

Now about the auto-turrets... Um yeh... They were supposed to be overkill. By the time the enemy's forces have been reduced enough to allow capture of their base, there are usually so few troops left on the field that the CP itself is unguarded. The turrets take about 5-min to auto-respawn so I looked at it as though it was another "challenge" to choose from (ie hunt down all the remaining troops or take on the turrets). Don't forget, the base CPs cannot be captured unless the owner's reinforment count is below 45 troops. Until then, there is no real point in attacking their base CP (take that spawn killers, HA!).

And now, the walking under the bridges. This goes back to the lack of 3D pathing... The AI is okay in this game, but far from perfect. I'm trying to be selective about where I put the AI-Only deathregions since they do reduce the reinforcement count. I've avoided putting them in high traffic areas since once some enemies come by, the bot will likely die anyway (but at least it might take some of the enemy with them this way).

And finally, the "vastness"! Yup! As I said in the readme, I'm still adding effects and junk to give the map more 'atmosphere', but I'm kinda slow at this kind of thing. I'll get to it sooner or later (hopefully I won't be sick of ZeroEdit by then...).

Now, if you don't mind, could you test the stuff that wasn't part of the public beta? The "campaign" mode isn't labeled or anything, it's just uses the assault-mode settings/gamemode selection. Select the "Assault" gametype (or whatever it is in Zerted's shell) and play that. Sorry I wasn't very clear in the readme, but that mode is the one that really needs the testing. There is where you'll find the Shield Generator.

Thanks again for your input.


@Rekubot
I've tweeked the 2nd objective some more. There are now a couple of pilotable tower turrets at the two entrances and the AI now evenly spreads between the choke points and the generator. I've also moved the CP to the other side of the tunnel, and added a tank spawn for the Republic there too. Now it's easier to get at least one offensive vehicle into the fight without it being too damaged on the way. I also increased the health of the Jedi (just for the objective-assault mode) making them tougher (but not invincible). Finally, while the two CPs sound like chaotic fun, in my experience so far, having more than one Jedi and narrow high-traffic areas like that causes the fight to degrade into a pointless slash fest. I've been trying to avoid something like that if possible.

Give me a bit more time and I'll have a new version for you to try out. If you don't mind, that is.

Ohhh... you have to get the Zerted's shell.. I see now. (I will edit this post and add more after I download the shell and test the new version of the map)

Actually Zerted's shell is NOT needed. Just play the 'Assault' mode. That's the one I setup to have the objective-based gameplay.

If you're still looking for testers I'll be glad to try this out.

@MartainK and Everyone
Does anyone know what happened to king? He offered to test but I haven't heard back from him for a few days. He hasn't even read the PMs I sent him yet. Perhaps he went somewhere for the weekend maybe? A couple more people have offered to test, so if he doesn't get back soon I'll take you guys up on your offers.

Just a question: I'm not the most informed person when it comes to forum etiquette, but how long does one wait for a response before acting and still remain fair to that person and others involved?



To The Testers:

Hey Rekubot and xdragon, how's the last version I sent you guys? Or have you not had a chance to test it yet? (It's been what? One day so far?)

If you have any more suggestions, I'd like to hear them. Just so you know, I've made/making the following changes since the last version I sent you:

1- As the objectives change, I'm adjusting the spawn points so they are closer to the action. Now there is a much shorter distance between the attacker's spawn and their objective (less running). I may also need to increase the Shield Generator's health to counteract the fact that more attackers will be able to reach their objective faster than usual (but testing is needed first to see if it's necessary).

2- The AI has been adjusted for the first goal. The attackers are more organized and move around a little better. Human players will probably still find the defender's side kinda boring in singleplayer, but I'm hopeing that players will just overlook that and be content with at least having the option. I'm sure it would be a blast in multiplayer, but so few people seem to play custom maps online. It's a shame.

3- The best change so far (in my opinion):



No more running blindly into the grass only to get shot! The amount of blaster fire is still high, but now it's at least dodgeable.

*Edit!!!
4- One more addition!!! I've setup a little script that checks periodically throughout the game to see if there is a human player on a side or not. My objective with this is when the script finds a human player on a side, it will boost the power of the bots on the opposite side. So if the player is playing on the attackers team the defenders get a boost, and vise-versa for the defenders. Also, if there are players on both teams (multiplayer) then BOTH sides get a boost. It's still going to take a while to balance the effects of this feature, but I have hope that it will make both sides of the battle fun to play once I'm finished.

So that's it for the testers. Thanks again guys.

Hey archer01, to be honest I haven't had the chance to test the updated version yet but I'll test it soon. I have an idea for the shield generator, would it be possible to reskin it so that it blends in with the terrain? (You know, put the camouflage pattern on top of the texture) That would add more realism in my opinion, as the enemy wouldn't want a couple of bombers flying over and seeing it.

That script sounds um... complicated . But it ought to add more depth to the game. When you say the AI get a boost, do you mean in difficulty, or do they get extra health or what?

It's good to be able to see the area around the shield generator now. Here's another suggestion; I know that the default sky belongs to Yavin, but in my opinion it ought to be changed to something more blueish. You could use the Hoth sky, but I'm not sure how that would look.

Edit: It's good to see that you have the water back to it's normal colour. If you can't add the water at the bottom however, it might be better to take it out, as it looks kind of unrealistic.

It took me almost 10 minutes to catch the tunnel CP, as it was occupied by two Sith lords, a shieldbreaker, two droidekas (at one point) and as many droids as seemed possible. Even worse, no other clones were attempting to capture it. The only way I finally managed to get it was by using my 20th jettrooper (almost literally) while only one Sith had spawned and he was stuck in the tunnel by the wall. Needless to say it was very boring attempting to capture it, as all you could do was kill a few of the endless amount of droids before being shot down by others. I'm not sure how you could fix this to be honest, apart from making sure that the other clones attempt to capture it instead of just standing around.

i would love to do a testers for you.

sorry i havent been on i has been trying to get jedi knights jedi acadmey working on single player

This map looks really cool. I think the sky looks good as is. It makes it seem sort of at dusk you know?

Yahoo!!!! I think I've got it! Rekubot, xdragon, I hope you guys are ready to do some serious testing, because I'm sure these alterations will need it! I just hope this thing will actually work in multiplayer... (I'm worried about lag because of all the scripting/list work)

...and king, you're back! So do you or do you not still want to test the map? If you're too busy, that's fine, please just let me know.

@Rekubot
As I said in the second point, the AI is now more spread out for the defenders. Whenever a CP is taken, the bots that were guarding it now switch over to a deathmatch goal instead of a defend one. That keeps around the same amount of defenders at each post.

As for the water... I wish I knew how to get rid of it. I think the texture (not the colour, just the "water" pattern) is some sort of alpha map in the msh itself. I'll experiment a bit more, but I'm not optimistic.

A summary of how the "boost" system works:

There are two settings for each side PoweredUp and Normal (ie weak):

Side PoweredUp effects:
- Defenders: Objectives cannot be destroyed by the AI alone. Only human players can kill these targets.
- Defenders: CPs take a while to capture
- Defenders: Some turrets cannot be killed by the AI
- Both sides: Random units on the field cannot be killed by other AI units. Again, only players can kill these units. (This is where all the list-work came in)

Side Normal effects:
- Defenders: CPs are VERY easy to capture
- All units/buildings can be killed by the AI

Now a side is only powered up if the opposite side has a Human player on it. This way either side, or even both sides, can become more difficult to slow down. However, the players themselves and the damage they cause are not changed in any way.

Now this system has to do a lot of work with lists, and the active changing of unit settings, so I have no idea if it will be at all stable online. But you never know.

So Rekubot, xdragon, king(?) you guys ready to try this next version?



@Everyone else who offered to test
Thanks a lot for offereing, but for the moment things seem to be covered. If the need arises I won't hesitate in asking for your help, but I won't know for sure until the inital results are in regarding this latest version. Cheers.

Well I'm ready, can't wait to try out this version. I think this time I'll have a look around for pathing issues, to be honest I haven't really been focusing on them so far.