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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 pm
by archer01
Hey trainmaster, is it still as difficult to beat the map with the starting reinforcements set to 300? I kinda thought of the starting force count as a "difficulty" setting.

Also, I've tried to set it up so that the most effective way to take out the generator is with a tank (but only if the anti-vehicle turrets near the entrance are taken care of first), so attacking with a trooper will of course be tough.

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:00 am
by trainmaster611
Yes its, still difficult with the reinforcements set to 300. You lose one man for every 2 seconds (no i'm not exaggerating) :shock: . When I got the generator down, there was only 36 men left, in other words, I only had one minute to spare! It would be a wise idea to weaken the anti-vehicle turrets or tweak them in some other way so the tanks don't keep getting nuked. :roll:

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:24 am
by Protector_Pulch
Just wondering: How to activate the Objective mode ? for me, this map only has hero assault and conquest ? Do I need a new shell.lvl or something like this ?

Cool skins, nevertheless.

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:42 am
by DarkLuke14
its disguised as assault mode

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:50 am
by archer01
*Sigh*... I was hopeful that after the public beta, I could go straight to version 1.0, but it's not going to happen. I've ended up making enough tweaks that I need to go through and test everything again. Now mind you, I'll be testing it myself, but I thought I would upload this version so that others might find something I might miss. The fixes are as follows:

- Fixed the low resolution textures for the tanks in the CW era
- Tweaked the difficulty some more
- Added a finite reinforcement count for the defenders during the final objective
- Adjusted the lighting and fog a bit (made it seem a little bit more "murky" due to the rain)
- Increased the viewing range (distance objects fade into view)
- Minor script changes
- Made some colour changes to the GCW units (so they didn't stand out so much)
- Added a mapinfo.txt file for dedicated server support (untested)
- Added a disclaimer on first spawn

Aside from the possible bugs that might crop up, my biggest question is what to do about the GCW skins... All I've done so far is make a few 'colour changes' so that some of the units don't stand out as much. To be honset, this project has gone on too long considering it's size (conceptually), so I'm not going to go crazy with the GCW skins.
So here's the question: "Should I leave the GCW colour changes, or revert back to the originals?"
Before installing the "latest" version, go into the map's folder and backup the "gcw_skinreplace.lvl" file from the sides folder. You can "hot-swap" the original skins with the recolours simply by replacing this file with either the old or the new version. Personally, I think that although the units stand out, the original skins were better balanced (colour-wise), but I'm looking for opinions before I scrap them.

Here's beta v0.9:
http://www.poorrogue.com/yap_objbeta/yap_dload.html

Thanks.

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:53 pm
by Epena
Huzzah!

I really do love this map, and the conquest got me thinking. I'll tell you that I lost more than one hair in frustration. ;)

Downloading the 0.9 right now, I'll be sure to give you some feedback.

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:55 pm
by yodasoda
hey all you guys who can't beat objective assualt mode, heres some hints:
for the first objective, capture all the command post as you usually would, but bring a tank in case you're gonna die and for fast getaways.
for the second objective (which is mainly why im writing this cause some of you can't beat it) instead of going through the pathway where all the droid are, go around and there will be a less crowded area where the geerator is still visible. be a heavy trooper and bring a tank if needed.
for the last objective be a sheild breaker and run into the temple and go through the right stair case. then get in to the room and use your armor scrapping grenades on the turrets and use theremal detonators to blow up the conslole thingy

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:34 am
by archer01
Thanks yodasoda, you reminded me about something I forgot to test! Would it bother anyone if I were to "re-introduce" the radiation field (damage region) around the shield generator? It already exists on top, but I think I'm going to have it come all the way down to ground level again. Reason: If you're slashing at it as a Jedi and the AI units happen to fire at you, they will likely miss thus causing damage to the very generator they are supposed to be protecting.

-> Unless someone can give me some valid reason not to, I will be extending the radiation to the ground level again thus making it so rockets are the best means of destroying the generator.

-> Now for another question: Since the "easy" way to beat obj2 is known, how easy is it? Too easy overall? Too easy for tanks? Try to be honest (for mine and other player's sake), and fair to both of the sides.

Thanks.


@Epena
Awesome! I'll be interested in hearing what you have to say. :D

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:16 am
by Epena
Love it.

I'm not sure if you corrected this from last version, I'm just saying this in case you didn't.

Almost if not all CPs in objective mode are sunken into the ground.

In the updated version of objectives, there seemed to be less tanks availible to me for the generator. True?

About the generator damage region...

Tanks that get themselves on top are okay. No damage region for them, dunno if you want it that way, because a tank on top seems kinda unpractacal, just mentioning.

Oh, could you make the jedi able to get in tanks?

For those lucky fools who managed to actually get in the the temple, there is a safe area from all turrets where you can cpture the CP. Now, archer, I'm not telling you where, because I like it. :P (if you ask for it I -will-, I just won't want to, hah)

I really hate the bowing death for the heroes and the upper class jedi. If you like it, by all means keep it, it just annoys me alot.

For conquest, I had a hard time keeping four CPs and thus using the jedi. Make it three?

I suggest making the water texture kamino water, that way it looks more like an actual river instead of just sitting there dead water.

Question-- (three, actually)

Do you know how to rename a mode/change image?

If so, do you plan on doing such?

Oh, and does the CIS have objectives in assault? I never looked.

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:17 pm
by yodasoda
Oh, and does the CIS have objectives in assault? I never looked.
yes they do. but you dont really progress or anythin. you just defend and if you lose an objective then you defend the next objective for the republic.

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:46 pm
by archer01
@Everyone
Stupid me forgot to test the second attack route (to the shield generator) with Jedi and Tanks... It was just as difficult as the main route in the past (way back when I was first adding in the turrets), but with the many recent changes, it's become too easy when using a tank. I think I may have a solution to this, but it'll make yodasoda's strategy more difficult to accomplish with troopers, and basically impossible with tanks. Would everyone be okay with a shift like that?



@Epena
Hey Epena, thanks for the input! I'll respond to each point in turn as best I can:

1- "Most of the CPs are sunken into the ground."
--> Well, the "checkpoint" one was placed underground to give the effect of being a checkpoint, not a CP, but considering the way the hologram just "cuts off" into the ground, I'll raise it above again. Most of the others are sitting on buildings and seem alright on my computer. The one in the stone circle should probably be raised, and the generator CP should also be fixed too.

2- "Less tanks for objective 2"
--> I haven't changed anything. It's probably the AI is just stealing them more often or something.

3- "Damage region for tanks"
--> I've modified the generator damage region to damage vehicles now and extended it to the ground again so melee attacks are not a good idea. I've also added a few damage regions on top of the surrounding hills so players can't use the game's wacko "hover" physics to hide up there in a tank.

4- "Jedi entering vehicles"
--> I left it so Jedi couldn't enter vehicles as a sort of "balance" tool. Considering how much damage the Jedi units can cause when in the right hands, I figured it would be a little bit "cheap" to give them access to tanks as well... I'll have to think about this one.

5- "Temple Safezone"
--> I think I know the spot you're referring to (I use it myself :D ). I left it since it would be easy enough for an enemy unit to come running by and shoot at you (assuming they had anyone left on their team).

6- "Kneeling Death"
--> It'll stay for the heroes (since the concept is that they are retreating, not dead), but I guess I'll change it for the upper level Jedi. They ARE dead after all (the instance of their characterUnit object is actually deleted/killed from the computer's memory :P )...

7- "CP count for Jedi"
--> I thought it was 5 CPs... Either way, it's supposed to be somewhat difficult. The Jedi are a reward for performing well after all. Is the lowering of the CP requirement something everyone would like? I'm just worried it'll be too easy to gain access to the Jedi.

8- "Dead water"
--> I'll play with a few of the settings and see what happens, but please remember, the waterey area is supposed to be an "arroyo", not a river.
Definition from dictionary.com:
a small steep-sided watercourse or gulch with a nearly flat floor: usually dry except after heavy rains.
9- "Mode icon and name"
--> *Arg*... This is the one that annoys me the most (annoying game developers and their silly design quirks)... I could use some of Zerted's shell functionality, but not everyone uses his shell. I *may* have a way of adding it using an addme script, but depending on the 'order' the game loads and processes data at startup, my idea might be shot out of the sky. I'll have to test to find out for sure...

10- "CIS goals"
--> Yup, but as yodasoda said, it's just the same goals but from a defender's point of view. The advantage to this is that you can switch sides (just like a normal conquest game) in the middle of the battle if you like. My script checks periodically during the match to see which sides have human players on them, so once the check occurs, the sides will have their bonuses added/removed accordingly.

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:27 pm
by Epena
8- "Dead water"
--> I'll play with a few of the settings and see what happens, but please remember, the waterey area is supposed to be an "arroyo", not a river.
Haha, silly me. I didn't know what an arroyo is. I figured it was a location on Yavin IV. :P
9- "Mode icon and name"
--> *Arg*... This is the one that annoys me the most (annoying game developers and their silly design quirks)... I could use some of Zerted's shell functionality, but not everyone uses his shell. I *may* have a way of adding it using an addme script, but depending on the 'order' the game loads and processes data at startup, my idea might be shot out of the sky. I'll have to test to find out for sure...
I love Zerted's shell. It's usefull in more than one way. As such, if all else fails, you could just include his shell with the download. Just a thought.
7- "CP count for Jedi"
--> I thought it was 5 CPs...
Haha, that's right. Just got my numbers wrong.
Either way, it's supposed to be somewhat difficult. The Jedi are a reward for performing well after all. Is the lowering of the CP requirement something everyone would like? I'm just worried it'll be too easy to gain access to the Jedi.
Right. I like the idea of a lack of ease, but whenever I've played, I only get the jedi for a minute or two. I love playing with them, but it's really hard to maintain 5 CPs. >.<

If you like that, keep it, by all means. It's your map. I just prefer to see them more. Maybe I'm just incompetent. :lol:

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:22 pm
by Hebes24
Hmmm.... I didn't see a finite reinforcement count for the defenderrs on the final objective (it is capturing the CIS base CP, right?). I don't know, I can barely destroy the shield generator. (I used the alternate route via tank). I'll try Downloading again.

never mind, I had an old version by accident. (me = idiot :roll:)

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:14 pm
by archer01
Oh boy... Everyone is probably going to hate me for this (especially yodasoda)... :oops:

Look at these if you want to know what I'm talking about:
The back entrance:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0006.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0007.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0019.jpg

The main entrance:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0009.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0011.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0010.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/t ... t_0017.jpg

I like the "upgrade", and I'm hope you guys won't mind it either :D . I should also mention that I've lowered the health of the generator (again) by another several thousand hitpoints. It now takes about 7 to 8 direct tank hits (missile) to take it down (as opposed to the 10 to 11 it took before). You think I should lower it even more...?


@Epena
Don't worry about not knowing what an arroyo was, I found the definition by accident while searching for a name. I just hope my interpretation of the definition was correct.

I looked into changing the mode name... No good... The game constructs and loads the interface before the addme scripts are run. As a result, the only way to edit the game modes is to do what Zerted has already done: edit the game files themselves. So here's what I'll do, since Hero Assault is not going to appear in this map anyway I'll leave it as is, but I'll also make it appear under the "Campaign" catagory in Zerted's shell. It'll be a little redundant, but at least it will be playable under both versions. Has Zerted added a way to detect his shell using a lua script (like a global flag or something)? If so, I could have it add the mode depending on which version is active.

I haven't had time to look into the other points just yet, but I will!

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:04 pm
by yodasoda
Oh boy... Everyone is probably going to hate me for this (especially yodasoda)...
*sniff sniff* i hates yoo.. lol jk :cry:

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:12 pm
by Hebes24
Darn, the Back entrance was the only way I could destroy it. at least you lowered the health to (somewhat) compensate. :?

Looks alot cooler now though! :D Can't wait for the next version! (even though I can't do the campaign. :( )

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:16 pm
by yodasoda
hehehe im sticking with the version without the back entrance :D

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:01 pm
by archer01
Okay guys, this project has been dragging on way too long for it's conceptual size. So this REALLY is going to be the last version before v1.0 is released. Even if something is found to be "broken" it's going to have to wait until v1.1 or something. I don't want to be heartless or lazy about this, but I'm in the middle of a move between houses right now so I need to wrap this up fairly quickly.

Since they are easy to implement, these are the few remaining things I'll be willing to change for v1.0:

- The health of the generator
- The number of CPs required for Jedi access in conquest
- Leaving or restoring the skins for the GCW era

Here's the final beta (honestly this time):
http://files.filefront.com/yap+beta+v0+ ... einfo.html

Some final input reguarding the items above would be helpful. Thanks everyone!


@Epena
You'll notice the CP count required for Jedi access is now 4 CPs in this version. However, although I've only played a couple matches so far, I found it a little bit too easy to get Jedi access. I'll play a few more games, but if it is still too easy I'll bump the requirement back up to 5. I'm sorry if that is bad news to you, but I do want this to require skill on the player's part. I also modified the addme script so it checks to see if the "Campaign" gamemode is available. If it is, it adds the map under "Campaign", otherwise it uses "Assault". That might create some confusion for players regarding the use of the "Assault gamemode" settings menu to configure starting reinforcements etc, but I modified the readme to cover that.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:23 pm
by Epena
Excellent, I'm downloading now.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:12 pm
by Maveritchell
Archer, this was the first time I'd played your map since one of the early beta versions, and let me say - significant improvement, and a rather challenging map, as far as singleplayer goes.

However, there is one thing you may want to change, if you want to keep the difficulty high. You should do a better job of surrounding the generator - at first, I thought this would be a rather difficult objective, but then I remembered the award rocket launcher. I was able to simply spawn on the Kashyyk platforms by an ammo droid and shoot rocket after rocket with no resistance. One could also probably accomplish the last objective with this, although it would be significantly more difficult.

EDIT: Whoops, well, I suppose that doesn't pertain to one of those three categories. I'd almost say that you should increase the health of the generator... but that would really just prolong the inevitable and hurt those that don't use the guided rockets. You may just want to remove the guided rocket from the level. (Quick fix, just delete the launcher from the rocketeer's .odf, and change the rocket launcher's type to "cannon.")